Has California finally lost its FREAKIN' mind?!?!?!
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Ridryder911
EMS Guru
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Why shouldn't medicine be a business? You like to get paid don't you? As well, where does it say in the Bill of Rights that healthcare is a basic right?
Sorry, I agree no one should be turned away.. and of yet in my 30 years ever seen one turned away because they had no money, sexual orientation race, religion, etc.
Now, in regards of procedures, surgical, medications, options; yes I have seen quite of bit in difference in care.
Although I agree with you to a point let's look at healthcare like any other necessity. Food for example. No one expects to get free food. Go to any grocery store and if you do not have the cash; can you buy the luxury item? Do they have assistance.. yes, just like medicine. Is it enough on a fixed income.. no.
Again, what everyone would like and what we are willing to pay, is another thing. Sure I believe everyone should get the best medical care. Then like everyone else, I don't want to have to fund it out of my paycheck. Yet, someone will have to.
This the difference between liberalism and conservative. Nice ideas versus reality. What does not come in, cannot go out.
Not many physicians is going to work for half their salaries as they are now. Sorry, realistically many are now not entering medicine because for the length of studies, costs of education, and litigation risks. It is much wiser for someone to enter another field that is just as profitable. It is happening now, just wait for the future.
The same is happeninig in nursing. Yes, there are some entering solely based upon the pay. Yet, now look at attribution rate. They soon find out, it is not worth the time money and expectations of the job. Most are leaving within two years. The average age of a nurse is now 48.5 years old. Why would one want to spend at least 3-4 yrs in college, when one could definitely profit more in another position? Sorry, money & benefits talks... the days of a job; being a calling is about over. Younger people much rather have the financial gains, than work in a profession that requires sacrafices, the reason there is a shortage.
The same is true in EMS. The problem is we never had the education requirements and have already allowed short or abbreviated responsibility. Yet we still see the same problems. Why would anyone even consider EMS as a career, when it is not even perceived as one? Yet, we all know volunteerism will soon be a thing in the past. Increasing number of responses, responsibility, and required education, and potential litigation will change and has change those involved.
So yes, it would be nice to provide "for all". Now again, I ask how and who are going to pay for it?
R/r 911
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BossyCow
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European countries manage to provide both education and healthcare to their citizens as a basic right and necessity. It is the dreaded "Socialized Medicine". While some countries have botched it, others are doing quite well, such as the Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium to name a few.
Of course, this is paid for with an extremely high tax base which strikes fear into the hearts of Americans. But, lets look at what we get for the money. I have a friend from the UK who told me that if he was ever hurt or sick, not to take him to a US hospital but to buy him a plane ticket home for care, it would be cheaper.
Part of the reason that Medical Professionals in the US need to be paid so much is because of the debts they incur learning their skills. If those taxes we are so afraid to pay go towards education, awarded based on ability and aptitude rather than the financial wherewithal to pay for Med School, perhaps the pool of physicians would be a bit different. Yes, there might be more physicians.. god forbid a glut on that market.
I think the two are tied together, and I believe that we need to be going in that direction. I am not all theory without the understanding of how the system works, contrary to what that does to your perception of liberal thinking. Some of us merely look at the sitation and draw a different conclusion. I think we have allowed businesses, especially the insurance industry to enter into areas where they have no business being.
As for your food analogy, it breaks down as well. I belong to a Food Co-op, I support local farmers, and raise much of my food myself. I believe we have allowed business to enter into the production of our food to the point that most Americans no longer know where their food comes from or what is in it.
The almighty profit motive has left the grasp of the middle american businessman struggling to make a living and has gone to support the stockholders of mega-corporations who manipulate the economics of our country and strive to destroy the small businesses that made this country what it was.
We disagree on some very basic premises Rid. I admire much of what you say and I respect your right to promote and espouse your own beliefs. Please do not belittle mine with such comments as "This the difference between liberalism and conservative. Nice ideas versus reality. " We can fund medicine and education. Its done in other countries.
Of course, this is paid for with an extremely high tax base which strikes fear into the hearts of Americans. But, lets look at what we get for the money. I have a friend from the UK who told me that if he was ever hurt or sick, not to take him to a US hospital but to buy him a plane ticket home for care, it would be cheaper.
Part of the reason that Medical Professionals in the US need to be paid so much is because of the debts they incur learning their skills. If those taxes we are so afraid to pay go towards education, awarded based on ability and aptitude rather than the financial wherewithal to pay for Med School, perhaps the pool of physicians would be a bit different. Yes, there might be more physicians.. god forbid a glut on that market.
I think the two are tied together, and I believe that we need to be going in that direction. I am not all theory without the understanding of how the system works, contrary to what that does to your perception of liberal thinking. Some of us merely look at the sitation and draw a different conclusion. I think we have allowed businesses, especially the insurance industry to enter into areas where they have no business being.
As for your food analogy, it breaks down as well. I belong to a Food Co-op, I support local farmers, and raise much of my food myself. I believe we have allowed business to enter into the production of our food to the point that most Americans no longer know where their food comes from or what is in it.
The almighty profit motive has left the grasp of the middle american businessman struggling to make a living and has gone to support the stockholders of mega-corporations who manipulate the economics of our country and strive to destroy the small businesses that made this country what it was.
We disagree on some very basic premises Rid. I admire much of what you say and I respect your right to promote and espouse your own beliefs. Please do not belittle mine with such comments as "This the difference between liberalism and conservative. Nice ideas versus reality. " We can fund medicine and education. Its done in other countries.
reaper
Working Bum
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This discussion has been done on other forums. No one yet has been able to convince me, That I would want government health care. Look to our neighbors to the north. There is no way I would want that system here. Yes, they get free health care for their taxes. But, they are also waiting long periods to get the health care they need. They are sending Pt's to the U.S. for the treatments and their tax payers are footing the bill.
I work hard every day. I pay for health insurance to cover my family. I am happy with my coverage and know that I will get the treatment I need, when I need it. I do not want to pay higher taxes to cover everyone Else's health care. We have medicaid for the poor and medicare for the elderly. That is enough of our taxes being spent. ( and abused).
This country was built on the idea that anyone can run a business and succeed. I feel sorry for the small business owners that have to compete with the giants. But, I am not gonna pay high prices for products, just to support small business. They need to learn to compete and market themselves better. How do you think the giants became that big? They started as small business owners and built it up. They learned how to play the game. This is a dog eat dog world and the strong will survive.
I work hard every day. I pay for health insurance to cover my family. I am happy with my coverage and know that I will get the treatment I need, when I need it. I do not want to pay higher taxes to cover everyone Else's health care. We have medicaid for the poor and medicare for the elderly. That is enough of our taxes being spent. ( and abused).
This country was built on the idea that anyone can run a business and succeed. I feel sorry for the small business owners that have to compete with the giants. But, I am not gonna pay high prices for products, just to support small business. They need to learn to compete and market themselves better. How do you think the giants became that big? They started as small business owners and built it up. They learned how to play the game. This is a dog eat dog world and the strong will survive.
LIFEGUARDAVIDAS
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Haven't been around for a while but not too much has changed (except the Halloween version of the EMTlife's banner -nice!).
In my humble opinion, bathrooms and lockers should be devided in two BUT not according to sexual orientation but according to phisiology. If a person has a male looking like body then he/she should use the "men" facilities, and if a person has a female looking like body the he/she should use the "women" facilities.
During a typical season I spend most of my visa coverage period in Alabama, Califronia and NY/NJ. -Though they could be considered as three different countries they all have different persons with different believes, costumes, sexual orientations, etc., etc. That is why I don't like the title of the original thread "Has California finally lost its FREAKIN' mind?!?!?!"
Here in Argentina, also a big country, you have many conservative sectors most of them influenced by the power of the Catholic Church. At the same time, in the City of Buenos Aires homosexual couples are allowed to get married. Other cities have growing homosexual communities as well. At a time, there was a project to modify public bathrooms and bathrooms in private buildings used by the general public in order to have a third division for homosexual users. HOWEVER, not all homosexual people have the same oriantation or body. Therefore, bathrooms devided in three sections are not enough. Actually, based on that, each person could demand a new section claiming his/her/its sexual orientation is different or unique...
Therefore, once again, I believe bathrooms and lockers should keep its original format not because people should be "conservative" regarding their sexual orientation (even young people -children) but in order to have a practical facility devided according to the physical looks of its users. And for those would say what about when they are changing in the lockers... I believe that as long as a person's body is covered as if wearing a swim suit problems among persons with similar bodies but different sexual orientations would be minimal.
About the HIV/AIDS issue I believe that only a few persons should be blamed. Not homosexuals in general. I believe that in the first place the people who had participation in either the invention, discovery, development or primary distribution are to blame. In a second and far far place those that knowing they are infected or could be infected transmit it anyways either because they are angry or they just don't care.
As I mentioned in other posts regarding 'typical' American polemic issues as school shootings, 9/11, gun control and NRA... No matter if a person is religious or not, which is his/her religion, how religious is he/she, no matter if a person is "conservative" or "liberal", etc.etc. we all have common enemies, common hazards, and no, they are not the communists, they are not the terrorists, not even the aliens (neither the illegal ones nor the extraterrestial ones
) our common enemies/hazards are: IGNORANTS/IGNORANCE, FANATICS/FANATISM and TYRANS/TYRANNY.
[[My opnions are mine only and neither represent the ones of my past, present or future employers, nor the ones of the agencies and organizations that trained and/or certified me, nor the ones of my clients.]]
All comments are welcome,
Guri
In my humble opinion, bathrooms and lockers should be devided in two BUT not according to sexual orientation but according to phisiology. If a person has a male looking like body then he/she should use the "men" facilities, and if a person has a female looking like body the he/she should use the "women" facilities.
During a typical season I spend most of my visa coverage period in Alabama, Califronia and NY/NJ. -Though they could be considered as three different countries they all have different persons with different believes, costumes, sexual orientations, etc., etc. That is why I don't like the title of the original thread "Has California finally lost its FREAKIN' mind?!?!?!"
Here in Argentina, also a big country, you have many conservative sectors most of them influenced by the power of the Catholic Church. At the same time, in the City of Buenos Aires homosexual couples are allowed to get married. Other cities have growing homosexual communities as well. At a time, there was a project to modify public bathrooms and bathrooms in private buildings used by the general public in order to have a third division for homosexual users. HOWEVER, not all homosexual people have the same oriantation or body. Therefore, bathrooms devided in three sections are not enough. Actually, based on that, each person could demand a new section claiming his/her/its sexual orientation is different or unique...
Therefore, once again, I believe bathrooms and lockers should keep its original format not because people should be "conservative" regarding their sexual orientation (even young people -children) but in order to have a practical facility devided according to the physical looks of its users. And for those would say what about when they are changing in the lockers... I believe that as long as a person's body is covered as if wearing a swim suit problems among persons with similar bodies but different sexual orientations would be minimal.
About the HIV/AIDS issue I believe that only a few persons should be blamed. Not homosexuals in general. I believe that in the first place the people who had participation in either the invention, discovery, development or primary distribution are to blame. In a second and far far place those that knowing they are infected or could be infected transmit it anyways either because they are angry or they just don't care.
As I mentioned in other posts regarding 'typical' American polemic issues as school shootings, 9/11, gun control and NRA... No matter if a person is religious or not, which is his/her religion, how religious is he/she, no matter if a person is "conservative" or "liberal", etc.etc. we all have common enemies, common hazards, and no, they are not the communists, they are not the terrorists, not even the aliens (neither the illegal ones nor the extraterrestial ones
) our common enemies/hazards are: IGNORANTS/IGNORANCE, FANATICS/FANATISM and TYRANS/TYRANNY. [[My opnions are mine only and neither represent the ones of my past, present or future employers, nor the ones of the agencies and organizations that trained and/or certified me, nor the ones of my clients.]]
All comments are welcome,
Guri
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