Haiti Earthquake EMS response

[Jeffrey_169]

No, I think you have a point. In the Marines we have a saying, "Adapt and overcome". He probably is trying to dramatize the situation in order to gain public support, but as you said in an MCI improvision is to be expected; especially in a poor nation such as Haiti, and when the Hospital has been destroyed.

I don't know, as I am not there, but it seems he is trying to persuade public donations. I can understand why, althought I do see your point.

 

[VentMedic]

No, I think you have a point. In the Marines we have a saying, "Adapt and overcome". He probably is trying to dramatize the situation in order to gain public support, but as you said in an MCI improvision is to be expected; especially in a poor nation such as Haiti, and when the Hospital has been destroyed.

I don't know, as I am not there, but it seems he is trying to persuade public donations. I can understand why, althought I do see your point.

There's more than one hospital in that country and a couple were built within the last 50 years to better code standards.

Gupta may not be aware of what happens even in the U.S. when we evacuate thousands of people from hospitals and LTC facilities when a hurricane is approaching. If we don't have something that is all nice and store bought pre-packaged, we make do with what we have that will work just as well rather than delaying transport.

 

[karaya]

I think the word is - improvise.

 

[Jeffrey_169]

There's more than one hospital in that country and a couple were built within the last 50 years to better code standards.

Gupta may not be aware of what happens even in the U.S. when we evacuate thousands of people from hospitals and LTC facilities when a hurricane is approaching. If we don't have something that is all nice and store bought pre-packaged, we make do with what we have that will work just as well rather than delaying transport.

I was unaware there was more then one hospital. I was under the impression this was the only one capable of providing the advanced care necessary. Perhaps I should do more research next time. Thank you.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

EMTs could help with this.....

From an MSNBC slide show:

A man lies in a bed outside a nursing home in Port-au-Prince. More than 100 seniors were living outside the damaged home, with no food or care other than an occasional bath from two orderlies who remained to help.

This is where EMT's could help. Over 100 people who cannot take care of themselves. Two trying to take care of all of them. Two people. Each has to take care of over 50 patients. Who says an EMT would not be more valuble than the average Red Cross volunteer?

 

[Veneficus]

From an MSNBC slide show:

This is where EMT's could help. Over 100 people who cannot take care of themselves. Two trying to take care of all of them. Two people. Each has to take care of over 50 patients. Who says an EMT would not be more valuble than the average Red Cross volunteer?

When you have 1 local red cross volunteer and 1 EMT you have 2 mouths to feed not 1.

Logistics is what solves crisis like this. There is a major issue with logistics.

Are you suggesting that in the EMT (or even medic) curriculum they were even taught the basic needs of humans, what aid is needed and how to deliver aid in a disaster? (I have taught for years, never once saw it in the curriculum)

Perhaps the EMTs could figure out where to get the medicine, clean sheets, food and water from that even the resources available to the US military is struggling to distribute?

I urge you to go to the international redcross website and look at the qualifications they demand of international aid workers and the needs.

These are current vacancies:

http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/section_vacancies

Not to be confused with those jobs always in demand:

http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/section_skills_always_in_demand

(I was particularly surprised they want surgeons with 5-7 years of experience to be considered) How do you measure up to that? I certainly don't come close.

The 120 hour EMT looks a little meager compared to these. Again consider as far as skills go, it is still better to logistically to teach a local 1 or 2 skills then it is let loose a bunch of basic providers that only add to the needs of the situation.

As for the elderly and chronically infirm, these people are expected to die. Look up the current disaster recommendations in the US. Even young children are on the bottom of the list for resources! (that is a realistic part of the tragedy)

It is a far different game then what is played in the US under normal conditions. There probably only 2 people taking care of the people in your picture because the rest left to search out food and water. They are laying in the steet because there is no way to take them somewhere else. They can't get medicine to the people to administer.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100117/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cb_haiti_waiting_to_die

"One man has already died, and administrator Jean Emmanuel said more would follow soon unless water and food arrive immediately.

"I appeal to anybody to bring us anything, or others won't live until tonight," he said, motioning toward five men and women who were having trouble breathing, a sign that the end was near."

What are you planning to do? Use a BVM on them till help arrives? (before you say "yes." Consider you are doing nothing for the illness and metabolic needs causing the trouble breathing)

I'm not trying to be mean to EMTs, tremendous resources are already on site. The Most experienced and educated people from around the globe are trying to overcome the difficulties. People who have done this before, people who practice it before "the big one" hits.

Arguing that you can change a diaper (when there are no diapers) or that you can inject medicine (that cannot be delivered to the sick) or that you will provide "first aid" unfortunately demonstrates you do not even understand what "helps." You can post all the heart wrenching photos you like, you cannot help. You are out of your league.

 

[VentMedic]

Who says an EMT would not be more valuble than the average Red Cross volunteer?

One also has to remember that the Red Cross Volunteer has probably taken every available first aid and advanced first aid class to be eligible for such a mission. That can add up to many more hours than a 120 hour EMT course. They will then get many more hours for disaster specific rescue first aid and relief work which will differ from EMT training in that it will not consist of a well stocked ambulance to work out of.

Thus, I would take a Red Cross Volunteer over the average U.S. EMT with no disaster appropriate training.

This is where EMT's could help. Over 100 people who cannot take care of themselves. Two trying to take care of all of them. Two people. Each has to take care of over 50 patients.

This actually is not much worse than some nursing homes in the U.S. that have 2 RNs per 100 patients, all total care, and maybe a couple of CNAs. But, these RNs and CNAs are trained and educated to oversee that many patients. Some EMTs fail to see what total patient care involves by the numerous comments on the EMS forums. Thus, if you can not forsee problems due to lack of training, 50 patients would be very overwhelming for the average U.S. EMT.

 

[FLEMTP]

Maybe we should just send VentMedic to haiti.. just her... and only her.. since she is the GOD of everything EMS (in her own mind) and knows everything about anything ( demonstrated by her arrogance and condescending attitude she takes in every post in this forum)

just a thought!

 

[FLEMTP]

I'll prolly get a warning for the above post.. but I know my words echo the thoughts and feelings of many people here in the forum.

 

[VentMedic]

Maybe we should just send VentMedic to haiti.. just her... and only her.. since she is the GOD of everything EMS (in her own mind) and knows everything about anything ( demonstrated by her arrogance and condescending attitude she takes in every post in this forum)

just a thought!

Have you ever been part of a disaster? I would not want to babysit you when I could be doing something useful for the area I am assigned. I have been on enough missions to know those that make comments like yours have absolutely no idea what to say because this is something they know nothing about. Even if you say you have been active in a hurricane, you probably only did the same EMS duties and wouldn't dream of doing anything other than your regular job description. Florida does have an elaborate Disaster plan to prevent EMS providers from just running around clueless with the possibility of becoming patients themselves. I would hope Lee County has been updating their to stay current. However, if you have no plan, then again I would be very disappointed with Lee County EMS.

Now as far as going to Haiti, I have my duties here to assist with those being brought to the U.S.

I'll prolly get a warning for the above post.. but I know my words echo the thoughts and feelings of many people here in the forum.

What advice do you want me to give here? Run off to Haiti and possibily get yourself injured or killed? Some have an unrealistic view of what happens in a disaster and I would put you in that category as well. I will not tell anyone to do something such as volunteer for a mission of this magnitude without proper training. I have given the names of organizations to which they can join if they are sincerely interested but an EMT card is NOT enough. Do you understand that? Do you know anything about responsibily and that include personal responsibility of seeking out information with the sources that have been linked to know "something" or anything before you run off to a foreign country in a time of disaster?

Now what part of that do you consider inappropriate?

If you do not believe in safety and appropriate training, then you are more of a fool than even I thought you to be.

 

[FLEMTP]

Have you ever been part of a disaster? I would not want to babysit you when I could be doing something useful for the area I am assigned. I have been on enough missions to know those that make comments like yours have absolutely no idea what to say because this is something they know nothing about. Even if you say you have been active in a hurricane, you probably only did the same EMS duties and wouldn't dream of doing anything other than your regular job description. Florida does have an elaborate Disaster plan to prevent EMS providers from just running around clueless with the possibility of becoming patients themselves. I would hope Lee County has been updating their to stay current. However, if you have no plan, then again I would be very disappointed with Lee County EMS.

Now as far as going to Haiti, I have my duties here to assist with those being brought to the U.S.

haha.. yet another PERFECT example of exactly what I was talking about in my above post.... more arrogance and condescending attitude.

For once, Im going to thank you VentMedic... you proved my point quite well.

Oh, and I wont be bothering to address your almost offensive post...in fact im really beginning to doubt you as a valid contributor to this forum. You claim to have all this experience, but yet your words and attitude seem to contradict that claim.

 

[VentMedic]

haha.. yet another PERFECT example of exactly what I was talking about in my above post.... more arrogance and condescending attitude.

For once, Im going to thank you VentMedic... you proved my point quite well.

Oh, and I wont be bothering to address your almost offensive post...in fact im really beginning to doubt you as a valid contributor to this forum. You claim to have all this experience, but yet your words and attitude seem to contradict that claim.

Then give examples.

What part of safety and appropriate training do you dispute?

I do not find wanting someone to be safe and have appropriate training to be offensive. Why do you see it that way?
It is actually a serious subject and if you go to Haiti, you shouldn't just be another mouth to feed or another patient.

 

[DV_EMT]

i just signed up with my wifes church to go out to one fo the orpanages in haiti to provide aid with some doctors and nurses. If they grab me and my wife, we'll probably be headed out in a few weeks.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

Maybe we should just send VentMedic to haiti.. just her... and only her.. since she is the GOD of everything EMS (in her own mind) and knows everything about anything ( demonstrated by her arrogance and condescending attitude she takes in every post in this forum)

just a thought!

Dude don't say that. Don't say any of what you have said in your last few posts. Take it back now.

I may not agree with everything she says right off the bat, but I have learned more from her than just about anyone else on this forum. I think that these "many people" you speak of are in reality, only a few people. I for one have seen the stupidness of my beginning stand in this argument about Haiti and once again have learned something from the wiser posters on this forum.

 

[Marty Mcfly]

Asked my supervisor if we were. He said being as it is not in the U.S. the D.R.T. will most likely not be sent.

 

[mycrofft]

Too bad Cuba can't be a big player in this.

We could ship huge quantities of supplies there then ship them to Haiti. Not "aircraft carrier" or "C-130", whole shipfuls. Or ship them to Cuba then they would be in flying distance for helos to bring loads to the underserved areas, and maybe tactical air controllers (who bring their own securitywith them).

Also mui beaucoups earthmoving equipment for burials, clearing debris, reestablishing proper drainage, digging new wells and laying sewers.

 

[Chimpie]

The admins are watching. Keep it polite.

 

[VentMedic]

We could ship huge quantities of supplies there then ship them to Haiti. Not "aircraft carrier" or "C-130", whole shipfuls. Or ship them to Cuba then they would be in flying distance for helos to bring loads to the underserved areas, and maybe tactical air controllers (who bring their own securitywith them).

Also mui beaucoups earthmoving equipment for burials, clearing debris, reestablishing proper drainage, digging new wells and laying sewers.

Cuba has already been helping Haiti as much as possible with medical care by having over 300 doctors there before the earthquake. They now have over 400 doctors helping out. Other countries may use Cuba as a port of storage for the supplies. It is only the U.S. that has a problem with Cuba and no other country. Unfortunately, in the U.S., you may not hear of what Cuba does unless you watch or read news on international stations.

 

[Jeffrey_169]

Cuba has already been helping Haiti as much as possible with medical care by having over 300 doctors there before the earthquake. They now have over 400 doctors helping out. Other countries may use Cuba as a port of storage for the supplies. It is only the U.S. that has a problem with Cuba and no other country. Unfortunately, in the U.S., you may not hear of what Cuba does unless you watch or read news on international stations.

Cuba is not the same nation since Castro bit the dust. It has made efforts to improve relations with its neighbors, and in particular the US.

 

[VentMedic]

Cuba is not the same nation since Castro bit the dust. It has made efforts to improve relations with its neighbors, and in particular the US.

Cuba was still a nation willing to help with or without Castro. During Katrina, 200 doctors were offered to the U.S. within 24 hours. This little country has also gone to assist with relief in the islands for other major hurricanes and the U.S. problem has not stopped them from offering medical care to those who need it. Cuba has not had issues with other governments such as what exists with the U.S. and many other countries use Cuba still as a big tourist destination as well as sending monetary support by way of investments.