Getting more people in EMS a degree, a different idea

[Veneficus]

I work in a fire based EMS system. The only reason I'm completing my EMS AAS is for promotional purposes. The degree maxes me out for educational points for the next Lieutenant's exam. Otherwise, I would see absolutely no financial benefit in getting this degree. I couldn't justify the time and monetary expense versus the lost opportunity cost for overtime at my job, or time spent with my family, instead of paying for, and taking numerous classes.

My next step is to get my degree in Emergency Management. Now,that's a useful degree.

Pop quiz:

In the USA, save for two or three states that require a degree, how much more does a degreed medic make over a cert medic? The answer is, nothing to maybe 3% at best, and only in a select few departments.

So I ask, how do you justify the time and monetary expense in pursuing an EMS AAS, when a cert through a vocational program will suffice in most places?

Two of the hospitals I worked for as a paramedic(required to be an ED tech) gave a slight pay increase, $1 and$ 2 an hour respectively for any employee with a health related bachelor degree.

Additionally one would reimburse $1500 a semester towards any healthcare related degree, So if you already had a BS/BA, going for your master's was a little easier. Which would of course get you a better job. It was hospital wide, so even if you were the janitor it applied. One of the nurses started as a billing secretary, went to medic school on it, then got her BSN on it.

One ofthe agencies I taught for started giving preference to degreed medics in hiring. Without a the bachelor box ticked on the electronic app, nobody would ever see your app because the computer would filter it. Granted the job is hospital education, but it pays almost double of any non-fire agency in the area even before benefits.

The local fire services in that area today have either hiring freezes, hire part time only, or are laying guys off, so it may be the question not of how much more money, but of a job vs. no job.

One of my friends and medic school classmates got a state level emergency management job because of the amount of applicants that applied for the job caused the state to decide to only interview candidates with a BS/BA or higher.

She was one of only 2 who was interviewed, they passed over all of the experienced fire executives, and she ended up with the job less than 2 years out of medic school.

What will it do for you? At your agency, probably nothing. At most EMS companies? Nothing.

But it could open up desirable jobs related to EMS for those who do not get lucky enough to work for an outstanding department, which is probably 90+% of paramedics.

You know the rule: Always have an escape plan.

 

[46Young]

Two of the hospitals I worked for as a paramedic(required to be an ED tech) gave a slight pay increase, $1 and$ 2 an hour respectively for any employee with a health related bachelor degree.

Additionally one would reimburse $1500 a semester towards any healthcare related degree, So if you already had a BS/BA, going for your master's was a little easier. Which would of course get you a better job. It was hospital wide, so even if you were the janitor it applied. One of the nurses started as a billing secretary, went to medic school on it, then got her BSN on it.

One ofthe agencies I taught for started giving preference to degreed medics in hiring. Without a the bachelor box ticked on the electronic app, nobody would ever see your app because the computer would filter it. Granted the job is hospital education, but it pays almost double of any non-fire agency in the area even before benefits.

The local fire services in that area today have either hiring freezes, hire part time only, or are laying guys off, so it may be the question not of how much more money, but of a job vs. no job.

One of my friends and medic school classmates got a state level emergency management job because of the amount of applicants that applied for the job caused the state to decide to only interview candidates with a BS/BA or higher.

She was one of only 2 who was interviewed, they passed over all of the experienced fire executives, and she ended up with the job less than 2 years out of medic school.

What will it do for you? At your agency, probably nothing. At most EMS companies? Nothing.

But it could open up desirable jobs related to EMS for those who do not get lucky enough to work for an outstanding department, which is probably 90+% of paramedics.

You know the rule: Always have an escape plan.

Some places do give small stipends for education, or hiring preference, but these seem to be in the vast minority.

Like you've said, a Bachelor's can help for employment, but a BS in EMS is relatively useless compared to a degree in EM or a BSN. There aren't enough EMS supervisory positions available to justify a four year EMS degree, which is utterly useless outside of EMS, and currently unnecessary for most EMS field positions (in the states). I've seen numerous field EMS providers get a degree in EM, and do very well after leaving txp.

 

[RocketMedic]

The only thing I learned in public school was that I was a bane to "respectable" society and I was to make a career in prison or do the world a favor and just die.

Smarter, not lily-white, not into risky sex and drugs, inquisitive?
Sounds familiar.

I am the only student in the history of Sherman E. Burroughs High School to get a 5 and a 1 on bullcrap AP tests. Aced AP History. Failed AP English because I wrote an essay explaining how childhood trauma affected Batman vs the wholesome adoptive family of Superman. Masterful work...disqualified because I didnt use classical English characters.

High school was literally only good for sports. Football taught me more about real life than school ever did.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

Schulz, what kind of programs are there for certified paramedics looking for a B.S degree? What other countries would you suggest studying in to learn more about paramedicine?

Theres a possibility P.A school or Med school could be in my future, but I just am not sure at this point. I feel experience in the healthcare field will justify this decision.

It seems to me the Australians have a good idea(not perfect but good)
However, there education and EMS system works different than ours. I would say they are #1 on my personal list. Also, as I mentioned earlier... If you ever want to work in another country as a Paramedic its becoming very hard with out a bachelors degree in Paramedicine.

I also think there is a lot of potential in many of the 4 year U.S. EMS and Paramedicine bachelors.
For the U.S. there are plenty of Paramedicine or EMS bachelors degree's to choose from. If you click on the link in my signature you can review most of them, maybe you will find one in your state or near by.

If you work with your adviser it is possible to complete all the pre-rec's for PA and or Med School within many of the EMS and Paramedicine degrees with out delaying graduation.
Some degree's are designed for Paramedics who want to go back to school and complete a degree, while others are designed for EMT's who want to become Paramedics with a BS.
If PA or Medical School is your goal though I would use caution completing an AAS portions of "sciences". If your using these to satisfy the BS degree's general education. Unless your AAS has Organic and General Chemistry, A&P,1,2,3, speak with the adviser.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

So I ask, how do you justify the time and monetary expense in pursuing an EMS AAS, when a cert through a vocational program will suffice in most places?

Well I left the USA for better opportunities and pay. First off an AAS is almost like toilet paper to many other countries who do not have such thing. Some will give you benefit of the doubt, my friend was able to file international reciprocity with it, but it delayed his paper work by 1 year because he did not have a BS in EMS or Paramedicine .

I did not need a bachelors at first but now I do. The last ambulance agency(an aussie company) I worked for had no degree requirement. Now, they require a percentage of Paramedics to hold a Bachelors in EMS or Para medicine. Eventually everyone will be required to hold one. I was looking at a another contract, through a Canadian company a couple weeks ago. First thing the recruiter asked on the phone was if I had a bachelors degree. When I said no, he said sorry, but then I explained my situation and when I will complete mine, I am on a "provisional waiting list" with that company now until I get closer to graduation. Also if you want to work in Oregon or be "licensed" instead of certified in some states, you will need at least an AAS.

If PA or Medical School is your goal though I would use caution completing an AAS portions of "sciences". If your using these to satisfy the BS degree's general education. Unless your AAS has Organic and General Chemistry, A&P,1,2,3, speak with the adviser.

Also disregard my comment about Medical School here, I am unsure of that. I was speaking about PA school entry(which may differ based on your area)
__________________

 

[mycrofft]

Addendum: The nursing educational model may be appropriate. Start with an associates degree as the minimum, and have bachelor's level degrees as well as graduate degrees for advancement purposes.

Certificate mills?

Lower level quasi nurses like CNAs, LVNs, some would say EMTs?

I was in an "articulated" nursing program; two years, get your AA and license. You could go on to BSN then, or not. Not a bad way to go, albeit full semesters dedicated to nturition and ethics were relatively unproductive.

 

[Carlos Danger]

In the USA, save for two or three states that require a degree, how much more does a degreed medic make over a cert medic? The answer is, nothing to maybe 3% at best, and only in a select few departments.

So I ask, how do you justify the time and monetary expense in pursuing an EMS AAS, when a cert through a vocational program will suffice in most places?

If you are strictly looking at it from a monetary standpoint, then I agree....it isn't easy to justify earning a degree to work in a field where a 2-semester certificate is all that's required.

However, every single day I read on EMS forums some variation of "why don't we earn more money....why do nurses have so many more opportunities than paramedics.....why don't physicians take paramedics seriously...what can I do to help improve paramedicine.....etc."

The answer to every one of those questions? Education.

If I were a young paramedic again, I would take one of the following paths:

• If I were confident that I just wanted to be a paramedic my whole career, and didn't think I'd want to advance past FTO or Field Supervisor, I'd do an associates in EMS for now, and plan on quite possibly doing a baccalaureate degree later.
  
  
• If I thought that I wanted to advance in the EMS or emergency services field, then I'd start working on a baccalaureate in EMS or emergency management.
  
  
• If I were confident that I wanted to go on to PA or medical school, I'd start working on a liberal arts BA degree that interested me, and make sure I take all the science pre-reqs that most med schools required.
  
  
• If I just wanted the most versatile credentials possible, without spending years and years in school, OR if I knew that I wanted to make a career in HEMS or CCT, I'd start working on my BSN.

Ideally, EMS would get it's act together and start requiring a 2-year degree at a minimum. But I don't see even that meager standard being made a requirement anytime soon.

In the meantime, at the individual level, the only thing that isn't acceptable is to be satisfied with a 2-semester vocational certificate as the pinnacle of your education.

Not if you expect to be viewed as a professional, anyway.