Four-Loko

Still love em. Still have a fridge packed with em.
 
zmedic said:
I think you have to look at it like a black box. If you say "product X linked to an increase in morbidity and mortality," then something needs to be done. I don't care if it's a new kind of car, a new kind of gun, a new drink whatever. Saying "oh, you can get that drunk or hurt or killed with something else" misses the point. It doesn't really matter what the product is, if it is linked to worse outcomes you have to do something about it. And while I'm all for education, I'd point to the success that we've had educating teenagers not to drink until they are 21, not to drive drunk, not to smoke until they are 18 etc.

You can't really compare this to other kinds of alcohol, because it doesn't matter that Jack Daniels has more alcohol, or that there are other beers that are 24 proof. Kids aren't drinking those things the same way that they are drinking this.
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You know, there was a time when the citizens of this country didn't need the government to hold their hand the entire way through life. Why does the government have to do anything about this? Where are the parents for the kids under 18? What's next, the government deciding that some brand of kitchen knife is too sharp to own because some moron cut themselves with it?
 
Hmmm

They banned four lokos in my state (Washington). I do not know if any other states are seeking reciprocal action. I think eventually they are trying to ban all alcoholic energy drinks.
 
JPINFV said:
You know, there was a time when the citizens of this country didn't need the government to hold their hand the entire way through life. Why does the government have to do anything about this? Where are the parents for the kids under 18? What's next, the government deciding that some brand of kitchen knife is too sharp to own because some moron cut themselves with it?
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I view it as an educational issue. Collectively people are idiots. Well, more accurately people are ignorant. When the FDA made their ruling on Four Loko it was a big topic of discussion around work because we had seen so many problems with it. It was interesting how many people didn't know that 1 Four Loko has the same amount of alcohol as a average bottle of wine.

An even better example is the situation with food and obesity in this country. The vast majority of people are totally ignorant about nutrition and it is just getting worse.

Because the sickest and most disabled end up on State and Federal benefits eventually it doesn't really surprise me they have an interest in trying to address the issues. Think about dialysis. ESRD is an automatic qualifier for Medicare, HTN and diabetes account for the majority of ESRD cases and the number is climbing. If the number of people on dialysis from those causes could be reduced the savings would be huge.
 
Aidey said:
An even better example is the situation with food and obesity in this country. The vast majority of people are totally ignorant about nutrition and it is just getting worse.
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However, the solution isn't prohibition (because, you know, it's not like a rum and coke is a new and/or rare drink), but education. Using the obesity angle, one of the new laws in California that just went into effect required fast food places to post calorie counts on their menu. I think there's definitely going to be an effect when you can't hide that the cheese pizza is 250 calories per slice.

Because the sickest and most disabled end up on State and Federal benefits eventually it doesn't really surprise me they have an interest in trying to address the issues. Think about dialysis. ESRD is an automatic qualifier for Medicare, HTN and diabetes account for the majority of ESRD cases and the number is climbing. If the number of people on dialysis from those causes could be reduced the savings would be huge.
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Going down this path would mean that the government (more so at the state as they aren't as confined by the constitution as the federal government) could regulate anything and everything that we do. There is no freedom, after all if people are healthier with an hour of exercise a day, why shouldn't the government pass a law and mandate it? After all, they have a vested interest in reducing government funded medical care. Oh, sorry, you had a hard day at work? Off to the gym for an hour before bed anyways.
 
That is assuming that people know what 250 calories per slice means. I agree that education is needed, it is just scary how much is needed. I am a huge fan of information being made available, because it at least gives people more of an opportunity to educate themselves.

I don't necessarily believe in mandated lifestyle changes because I support personal responsibility a bit more than that. For lack of a better option I think more health education should be mandated for teens. Also, people should be able to be denied coverage if they are non-compliant. If a non-compliant diabetic has been educated about nutrition, exercise, blood sugar monitoring, etc and continues to disregard what they need to be doing, and continue to have an A1C of 14 there needs to be a consequence. I know it isn't a very good idea, but there needs to be some sort of incentive for people to become educated and use that knowledge.
 
I think people are confusing the govemerment's ability to mandate behavior, which is limited, and their ability to regulate products. This isn't whether people are allowed to combine alcohol with other things, it is if a product sold in the united states is safe. They regulate everything you buy, from cars, to child sleepwear. I just don't see why this is such a personal liberty issue and those other things aren't.
 
zmedic said:
I think people are confusing the govemerment's ability to mandate behavior, which is limited, and their ability to regulate products. This isn't whether people are allowed to combine alcohol with other things, it is if a product sold in the united states is safe. They regulate everything you buy, from cars, to child sleepwear. I just don't see why this is such a personal liberty issue and those other things aren't.
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If Four Loko isn't safe, then I suppose guns kill people too?

Inanimate objects are no more dangerous than WE make them.
 
Two words to remember




JOB SECURITY!
 
zmedic said:
They regulate everything you buy, from cars, to child sleepwear. I just don't see why this is such a personal liberty issue and those other things aren't.
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The problem I have is the concept that caffeinated alcohol beverages are dangerous, so they need to be banned, but caffeinated mixed drinks are perfectly OK. If Four Loko is so dangerous, then shouldn't a rum and coke or Irish coffee be equally dangerous? Why not ban the making of those too?
 
JPINFV said:
The problem I have is the concept that caffeinated alcohol beverages are dangerous, so they need to be banned, but caffeinated mixed drinks are perfectly OK. If Four Loko is so dangerous, then shouldn't a rum and coke or Irish coffee be equally dangerous? Why not ban the making of those too?
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If you see any irish coffees, rum+cokes, or vodka+red bulls for sale in cans at convenience stores or 6-packs, please inform your local congressman. I'm sure they'd be happy to banninate them.

For one thing, bartenders have a legal liability for patrons they serve. While such responsibilities do exist in theory for clerks at stores that sell these four loko drinks, they are obviously harder to enforce and only happen in more extreme cases. You might buy a whole fridge full of these and drink them all at home 2 months later before you decide to go out driving in your 1200kg Volkswagen cruise missile.
 
dixie_flatline said:
For one thing, bartenders have a legal liability for patrons they serve. While such responsibilities do exist in theory for clerks at stores that sell these four loko drinks, they are obviously harder to enforce and only happen in more extreme cases. You might buy a whole fridge full of these and drink them all at home 2 months later before you decide to go out driving in your 1200kg Volkswagen cruise missile.
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I didn't realize that I needed a bar tender to make a rum and coke.
 
JPINFV said:
I didn't realize that I needed a bar tender to make a rum and coke.
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Regardless of who is pouring the drinks, someone is making them (and is responsible for whomever is consuming them). Main point was that your rum & coke doesn't come pre-mixed, in a single-serving can, as others have pointed out.
 
Another thing about the four loko is it's not sealable. All other hard liquor is in a bottle with a cap. The fourloko is in a single serving can, encouraging it to be drunken in one sitting. Just an observation.
 
dixie_flatline said:
Regardless of who is pouring the drinks, someone is making them (and is responsible for whomever is consuming them). Main point was that your rum & coke doesn't come pre-mixed, in a single-serving can, as others have pointed out.
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But Jack and Coke is served premixed in 12 oz bottles.
 
dixie_flatline; said:
Main point was that your rum & coke doesn't come pre-mixed, in a single-serving can, as others have pointed out.
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So?

.
 
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Nothing wrong with thinning out the herd :)

I'm a college sophomore and I run with a college EMS group. Saw plenty of kids who had too much, but whatever. Its not necessarily the drink, its the dumbass drinking it. I've had them several times without ending up dead or in a hospital; its about moderation and RESPONSIBILITY.

And I agree, the government has no business banning them.
 
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