Forest Service and emergency med response?

661 EMT

661 EMT

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For those familiar with the forest service, who here agrees that steps should be taken to make forest service engines also respond for bls calls when the wait time on city, county, private companies have an extended response time? Almost every engine has an EMT and carry full bls equipment (which is technically for agency use only). Yet when there is medical, trauma, calls just minutes away often these units are not called which I believe in some cases may have meant the difference....
 
I'm not familiar with forest service ops. Do they have medical direction? If the supplies are for employees only I'd kinda doubt it and that's where the problem lies.

Also, those other departments don't want to give up the area because they get runs out of it. More runs means more budget. Forest service coverage area might equal more "toys" for the agency too. Side by sides, ATVs, snowmobiles...not saying it's right.
 
There is no medical direction, which I feel is something that should be changed somehow. I have responded to numerous accidents and rescues and worked in an emt role within the forest service but without any real guidance.... they don't recognize the position but want you to perform as one on certain calls.... for instance, one day were packaging a guy up from a 100+ ft fall and treating him O2 c-spine w/backboard, splinting, bleeding control etc... the next day a guy has a heart attack 1 mile down the road and it takes a local ems 1hour to get out there yet they don't ask us to respond and the agency doesn't allow us to respond..... I'm so confused why this isn't a no brainer... were trained and equipped and there is a need... just don't understand ...
 
I have no idea what the rules are for responding on a federal level for your own employees without medical direction, but it's probably not going to be kosher to respond to 911 calls. Look at the primary role you guys are serving though. 911 responses (to medical calls) aren't what these resources are meant to do at all, and I don't know if blurring the lines of response guidelines would help with anything. Getting caught up in every rural call with an extended response by EMS would mean your primary mission could get neglected for little to no benefit.

If I were in this position, I wouldn't do anything more than first aid on a good samaritan level if I happened to roll up on something. Remember too, first response by non transport capable BLS is often overrated. If anything, perhaps try to set up a first response system in your jurisdiction for cardiac arrests only if the engine is staffed, not committed, and closer than any other EMS or FR. Just be aware that it can be very difficult to get incorporated into dispatching and the area wide EMS system.

This whole thing is going to be even more complex if you aren't recognized as EMT level as you stated. If it's just a bonus cert for hire and you happen to have the equipment without it being in your job description, I don't see it happening. I get where you're coming from and admire the mindset, but there just seem to be a ton of hurdles.
 
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Some folks might not know that USFS as well as some state fire agencies like CALFIRE, provide primary firefighting services to some settled rural areas lacking most civil services due to size and non-incorporation.

Sounds good to me. Even better, add using those firehouses to conduct CERT, first aid and CPR training for locals.
 
I guess I just think it's in the publics best interests that engine crews that are available and medically trained be allowed to respond when there is a need especially in southern california where we are being used more and more for "all risk" assignments. Plus its not a good public image when the big green fire truck with red lights is sitting down the street while uncle john suffers a heart attack...waiting on the red truck to show up maybe in twenty minutes...
 
Why don't the Counties involved (San Bernardino being The One) field their own EMS systems, or subsidize ones coaxial to the firefighters?
 
The short answer is it is different everywhere and there is no rhyme or reason. Remember Forest Service is not a 24/7/365 agency. For the most part it is seasonal staffing and not staffed at night. Therefore it is difficult to include them on any dispatch algorithm for automatic dispatch because you never know when they are staffed and when they are not staffed.

That being said, I work as a medic for a company that covers hundreds of square miles of the Sequoia National Forest. Especially during the summer, the Forest Service is on almost all our calls in the National Forest. They are usually on scene first. Kern County Fire and sometimes Tulare County fire will also respond depending on where the call is as well. Sometimes the Forest Service is dispatched to first respond. Sometimes they respond when we put out a request for additional manpower such as when we have to hike a patient out or on an over the side MVA. There are also times they see us drive code 3 by there station up into the forest and they follow us up to see if we need any help. They will also set up landing zones for us sometimes if County Fire is not available or has a longer response time. So, it is impossible to say for sure when they will or will not be there. When the call is at a forest service campground, or on forest service land they almost always respond, either with a patrol, an engine, or both. Oftentimes forest service law enforcement rolls by as well. One thing I will say is that they are some of the most helpful first responders you can ever run a call with. They are work hard and support us 100% when we are on scene. I always enjoy running calls with them. I am not sure how it works in other places, but where I work in Central CA, that is how it works most of the time.
 
Sounds like a dispatcher's drowsy-mare.
 
It's not too bad for dispatch. Us and County Fire go to every call. Then they call the Forest Service to see if they can/will respond. They are more of a supplemental resource.
 
CentralCalEMT said:
One thing I will say is that they are some of the most helpful first responders you can ever run a call with. They are work hard and support us 100% when we are on scene. I always enjoy running calls with them. I am not sure how it works in other places, but where I work in Central CA, that is how it works most of the time.
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I appreciate you saying that as I worked on the Sequioa N.F. for years and probably have worked with you. And your right not being staffed 24/7 I could see how that would be a problem with dispatch.. I just think the system and cooperation between agencies could be way better. Too often have I heard calls while monitoring other agencies that are very close to my station and then heard their response 20 -30 min even an hour after.... and wondered what if? I'm hoping in the future someone will revisit the issue and see what a benefit to the public it would be if the Forest Service fire units could respond in more ems scenarios....
 
In our area we have FWS station, they're not staffed 24/7 and really only have a full crew during the winter months. However, the few full time guys will add themselves to incidents in the area. It also helps that they are local volunteers in their off time.

It would make definitely make sense for USFS to be added on nearby calls. I'd imagine it's gotta be a logistical hassle from the dispatch end though. Admittedly though I have little knowledge of how the whole federal system works, but I'd imagine it'd take several levels of admin approval before you could add a unit to a call.
 
Lucerne Valley, CA (a scattered medium population desert town in San Bernardino County) has had CALFIRE and its predecessors since the early Sixties with 24 hr staffing, I believe.
 
mycrofft said:
Lucerne Valley, CA (a scattered medium population desert town in San Bernardino County) has had CALFIRE and its predecessors since the early Sixties with 24 hr staffing, I believe.
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CALfire isn't really the same as the Forest Service though. FS engines serve a wholly different purpose and are staffed in a different configuration.
 
Ah, ok.
 
mycrofft said:
Lucerne Valley, CA (a scattered medium population desert town in San Bernardino County) has had CALFIRE and its predecessors since the early Sixties with 24 hr staffing, I believe.
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I've responded numerous times to the Calfire station in Lucerne valley along with San bernardino County fire for walk-in patients. It must be awkward for them not being able to do anything until we get there.
 
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