Fluid in the lungs

[Limes]

Hey all, I got a question relating to secondary/dry drowning. Basically, fluid enters the lungs which can cause difficulty breathing and chest pain.

In a general sense, why is chest pain sometimes associated respiratory distress? Does it have to do with the decrease of oxygen being supplied to the heart which causes the pain? Or is it because of pulmonary edema?

 

[DesertMedic66]

Or from the increased muscle use when someone has trouble breathing

 

[Handsome Robb]

or from irritated tissue... the list goes on and on.

 

[RobertAlfanoNJEMT]

Could also be congestive heart failure if there is excess fluid in the pleural cavity as well

 

[MrJones]

Hey all, I got a question relating to secondary/dry drowning. Basically, fluid enters the lungs which can cause difficulty breathing and chest pain.

In a general sense, why is chest pain sometimes associated respiratory distress? Does it have to do with the decrease of oxygen being supplied to the heart which causes the pain? Or is it because of pulmonary edema?

Not sure what you're asking here. In what used to be called 'dry drowning' (Experts in the field now only recognize/use the term drowning - it's a process, not an outcome) the major finding was that the lungs were dry; asphyxiation was caused by the larynx spasming and closing off the airway.

 

[Underoath87]

Could also be congestive heart failure if there is excess fluid in the pleural cavity as well

CHF doesn't cause pleural effusions (excess fluid in the pleural space surrounding the lungs). That's generally associated with pneumonia.

OP: the problem is that you're trying to wrap up the signs and symptoms of dozens of medical conditions into one easy explanation. It doesn't work that way.

 

[Limes]

OP: the problem is that you're trying to wrap up the signs and symptoms of dozens of medical conditions into one easy explanation. It doesn't work that way.

You're right that I just want to have an explanation for this, so how would I explain this to a guest? Is there a better way to approach this situation?

 

[DesertMedic66]

You're right that I just want to have an explanation for this, so how would I explain this to a guest? Is there a better way to approach this situation?

Explain what? Why people with SOB will often get chest pain?

 

[Underoath87]

You're right that I just want to have an explanation for this, so how would I explain this to a guest? Is there a better way to approach this situation?

What sort of guest? Either way, this sounds like the blind leading the blind, so just try to avoid it.

But to satisfy your own curiosity:
If dyspnea is secondary to the chest pain (of cardiac origin), then it is likely because the heart is failing and not pumping blood through the lungs and body adequately.
If the chest pain is secondary to dyspnea, it could just be from anxiety or pleuritic pain (like pneumonia).

But like I said earlier, there are dozens of situations that will cause dyspnea and chest pain, and some will not fit this generalization.

 

[dumbenoughtostay]

CHF doesn't cause pleural effusions (excess fluid in the pleural space surrounding the lungs). That's generally associated with pneumonia.

Not quite true.

A quote from Medline Plus, but you will find the same information from other sources:

"Your body produces pleural fluid in small amounts to lubricate the surfaces of the pleura. This is the thin tissue that lines the chest cavity and surrounds the lungs. Pleural effusion is an abnormal, excessive collection of this fluid.

There are two types:

• Transudative pleural effusion is caused by fluid leaking into the pleural space. This is from increased pressure in the blood vessels or a low blood protein count. Congestive Heart Failure is the most common cause.
• Exudative effusion is caused by blocked blood vessels or lymph vessels, inflammation, lung injury, and tumors. "

Your body produces pleural fluid in small amounts to lubricate the surfaces of the pleura. This is the thin tissue that lines the chest cavity and surrounds the lungs. Pleural effusion is an abnormal, excessive collection of this fluid."

 

[Limes]

Explain what? Why people with SOB will often get chest pain?

I just want to explain to a guest why someone maybe be experiencing chest pain or SOB, which is why I want to understand how it all works.

What sort of guest? Either way, this sounds like the blind leading the blind, so just try to avoid it.

A guest as in a patron at the Waterpark. What do you mean "blind leading the blind"?

 

[Carlos Danger]

I just want to explain to a guest why someone maybe be experiencing chest pain or SOB, which is why I want to understand how it all works.

A guest as in a patron at the Waterpark. What do you mean "blind leading the blind"?

I think what he means is that you don't really seem to understand this stuff at all. When you combine that with an inability to properly assess the potentially life-threatening presentations of CP and/or SOB, your best response to someone with such complaints is probably "let me call the paramedics for you".

 

[Limes]

I think what he means is that you don't really seem to understand this stuff at all. When you combine that with an inability to properly assess the potentially life-threatening presentations of CP and/or SOB, your best response to someone with such complaints is probably "let me call the paramedics for you".

Well that's why I'm here! Trying to understand it. Makes more sense now though.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Well that's why I'm here! Trying to understand it. Makes more sense now though.

Right. This is a good place for that. But I wouldn't worry about trying to explain much of anything to someone complaining of CP/SOB. They need to be assessed by someone who really knows what they are doing.

 

[SeeNoMore]

I think you'll get more out of this site if you take the time on the front end to do more of your own studying. Your question betrays a lack of familiarity with basic elements of pathophysiology. I'm not trying to be unkind, but more self study would allow you to ask more specific questions and make better use of the answers. Used medical textbooks are easy to find (often only a year or two old) , and you can always use the power of google.

In any event, I agree with Remi and others that attempting to explain to a patient why they might be SOB is tricky. Even with a sound understanding of possible likely causes (differential diagnoses) you generally want to paint with a broad brush prehospitally. I don't see the value in attempting to explain in detail the association between chest pain and SOB to an ill patient. I think it would be reasonable to just explain that their symptoms could be serious and should be evaluated by a Paramedic and then ED team. Even as an ALS provider I stick to general and easily undestood information : "Sir it looks like you may be having a heart attack, we are going to be moving quickly to get you to a ED that can take care of you." Just an example.

 

[Limes]

I think you'll get more out of this site if you take the time on the front end to do more of your own studying. Your question betrays a lack of familiarity with basic elements of pathophysiology. I'm not trying to be unkind, but more self study would allow you to ask more specific questions and make better use of the answers. Used medical textbooks are easy to find (often only a year or two old) , and you can always use the power of google.

In any event, I agree with Remi and others that attempting to explain to a patient why they might be SOB is tricky. Even with a sound understanding of possible likely causes (differential diagnoses) you generally want to paint with a broad brush prehospitally. I don't see the value in attempting to explain in detail the association between chest pain and SOB to an ill patient. I think it would be reasonable to just explain that their symptoms could be serious and should be evaluated by a Paramedic and then ED team. Even as an ALS provider I stick to general and easily undestood information : "Sir it looks like you may be having a heart attack, we are going to be moving quickly to get you to a ED that can take care of you." Just an example.

Thanks for your response. I'll review more about pathophysiology, hopefully that'll help me.

 

[SeeNoMore]

And by all means, please continue to ask questions here. There are many intelligent and experienced posters who have worked in all kinds of settings. Best of luck.