Experience?

I just wanted to be clear that a good EMT with prior experience would not be ruled out over a bad EMT with no prior experience.
All other factors being equal, yes, they would. Experience is a negative that will count against you in the application process. However, as I said, there are many factors considered, so it does not mean you won't get in. It just means that you lost a point for it.
 
The whole "point system" sounds strangely similar to affirmative action or discrimination, which any right minded/educated person would agree has no place in the hiring process. Job placement should correlate directly to qualifications...Personally, I don't think there should be any points in regards to what you may or may have not done prior to taking your entrance exam.
 
The whole "point system" sounds strangely similar to affirmative action or discrimination, which any right minded/educated person would agree has no place in the hiring process.
Only someone with no formal education in management would make such a silly assumption. It is no more discriminatory than you choosing to give preference to those with experience. And as a minority on multiple levels, I resent your accusation.
 
Only someone with no formal education would assume being a minority on multiple levels, being that in today's society a white male is nowhere to be found the the affirmative action laws that still govern the hiring process of Equal Opportunity Employers.

Please keep in mind that you initiated the point system for personnel with experience as opposed to personnel without experience. If you were truly unbiased, would your entry exam/ oral interview be the only determining factors as to who gets in and who doesn't???

I apologize for bringing up affirmative action and EEO. That is neither here nor there and has no place in this forum, unless you would like to continue to include this concept...
 
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P.S. - another thing i learned while gaining experience as an EMT is that a COPD patient can get hi flow O2 for more than a 30 min transport if they need it. I know that seems like common sense but after being questioned by an RN, you begin to second guess yourself. Many RNs in this area (not sure how RNs think in your area) seem to think that this is bad because of the COPD pts defense mechanism, not realizing that it takes an extended period of time for the COPD patient to actually stop breathing after receiving hi flow O2 treatment. Thats a NREMT-P question by the way...(after the RN made me feel like an idiot because i was "just an EMT" the DOC made her look like an idiot by putting the patient back on an aggressive O2 treatment to help combat the respiratory distress they were experiencing). I know this sounds pretty basic, but keep in mind, any EMT or Paramedic that is questioned by an RN or Doc would second guess themselves in regards to any treatment, right or wrong...

Honestly you would have been educated as the reasons for the above at any quality Paramedic program.

If I do what I know is right and I get questioned about it I give them the medical explanation behind the treatment performed. By giving a medical explanation rather than saying thats what protocols say to do you will get much more respect from the much higher educated doctors. Unless they provide me with updated medical proof that I am wrong I walk away knowing I did what my patient needed. I will go research to see if there is a new way of doing things that I missed in one of the many medical journals, not JEM's as thats far from a medical journal. If nothing new is found I have even to help the doctor who is to busy to stay up to date get current emailed them the link to the current information. I have gotten many expressions of thanks from doctors for doing this.
 
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TBH, I have to agree with what many have said. I just finished my EMT-B class, and while the instructor was fantastic, and really tried to give us as much info as possible, the text was frustratingly basic, and in several places, just *wrong* (esp. in the A&P sections).

I've been reading a Paramedic textbook in preparation for starting a program next year (if I get in! They only take 24 students a year), and I reallyreally wish I could have started learning with just that book, now.

And the difference in what the people who were in the class with the goal of going on to get their medic, and the people who were in the class who weren't, was astounding, and did lead to some friction. A 2-year paramedic program sounds *wonderful*.
 
I just wanted to be clear that a good EMT with prior experience would not be ruled out over a bad EMT with no prior experience.

Good and Bad EMTs are subjective and a matter of opinion.

To me, a mark of a good EMT is an EMT who wants to be the very best they can possibly be for their patients. That includes furthering their education as soon as they possibly can. A bad EMT is someone who is complacent to stay at the lowest level of care for any amount of time, foolishly believing that they are "learning" anything when they simply aren't. And how many even get to practice their skills? Short of back boarding and CPR both of which are skills that should have been mastered to pass EMT class, 911 basics here just drive. IFT basics get lazy and stare at their patient for 15 minutes without even gloving a hand to touch a patient.
 
You are absolutely correct...I learned the pathophys behind exacerbated COPD, the hypoxic drive and its role in COPD patients, as well as the role 100% O2 has on these particular patients over an extended period of time. My experience as an EMT taught me how to deal with this RN. As a brand new medic, I'm sure most of us still have difficulty talking back to an RN or Doc, especially since such an action can get you in trouble with the big dogs of your company. Becuase I learned how to deal with this situation as an EMT, I won't be forced to look like an idiot as a paramedic, and already know how to respectfully argue my point with an RN. I understand that this type of knowledge could be gained during a paramedic field internship, but i learned it much earlier on in my career.
 
So sasha, you personally believe that the entire EMT class is nothing more than a prereq for paramedic class...After all, a good EMT, in your opinion, is measured by how well they want to treat their patient AS WELL AS how fast they further their education. What about the numerous BLS fire depts around the nation? Are these firefighters not good EMTs becuase they didn't go straight to paramedic school after EMT school?
 
you personally believe that the entire EMT class is nothing more than a prereq for paramedic class...

Yes.

What about the numerous BLS fire depts around the nation? Are these firefighters not good EMTs becuase they didn't go straight to paramedic school after EMT school?

For the BLS fire departments, I suspect a lot of the fire fighters became EMTs just because of the job requirement, not because they wanted to be. In that case, again, I don't believe they are good EMTs.

And as a minority on multiple levels, I resent your accusation.
Who are you trying to kid? :P
 
You are absolutely correct...I learned the pathophys behind exacerbated COPD, the hypoxic drive and its role in COPD patients, as well as the role 100% O2 has on these particular patients over an extended period of time. My experience as an EMT taught me how to deal with this RN. As a brand new medic, I'm sure most of us still have difficulty talking back to an RN or Doc, especially since such an action can get you in trouble with the big dogs of your company. Becuase I learned how to deal with this situation as an EMT, I won't be forced to look like an idiot as a paramedic, and already know how to respectfully argue my point with an RN. I understand that this type of knowledge could be gained during a paramedic field internship, but i learned it much earlier on in my career.

Which COPD patients? Even RNs are learning their textbooks have been rewritten to dispel certain myths about this.

We have debates all the time in healthcare about treatment. What you learned about COPD is probably more "hearsay" than medical science or you may be equating medical science to that one paragraph in an EMT text. A good paramedic with a proper education would understand the difference.

A Paramedic may also have other options for providing oxygen or protocols that don't have a NRBM stuck on every patient. Thus, any discussion in the ED could be more patient care focused rather than a debate about an EMT's protocols.

You don't talk back or argue with other healthcare professionals. You discuss your treatment and criteria for what you have done. If you can give a valid reason for your treatment, it will be accepted or not. What they continue to do as treatment in the ED is up to them. If you are "talking back" to medical staff to where it would get you in trouble, you have learned little in the field about communication and may be relying more on emotions or "street smarts" than the medical aspects of patient care.

A newly educated Paramedic would have more education to understand what point they are trying to make and more protocols to support their decisions in treatment. If the clinicals are done appropriately they would have much more quality patient contact experience that what can be obtained working as an EMT-B. The basics are not that hard to pick up once you have the hows, whys and whats to understand when to apply that bandage.

An EMT class is essentially a prerequisite for Paramedic in that it teaches a few basic technical skills. It should be no more than a skills checkoff for the beginning of Paramedic class.

Other allied heathcare professions also have a class similiar to this but it part of their degree program. Almost all start with a short class that teaches basic assessment and vitals. It is little more than an introduction to give some foundational skills to get started. One could equate it to CNA for RN which could be challenged after the class but most know their 1200+ hours of clinicals obtained in just a two year degree will give them experience while they are learning to actually know what they are doing when it is time for hands on. Most in other professions also know their education does not stop with the degree. A well educated Paramedic would also be aware of this after seeing how much more that is to learn. Neither the EMT or most Paramedic programs give any indication that there is more to learn. If some saw the limitations of the educational standards or their own training, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You would not hear too many others discuss why they should remain a CNA or tech instead of going on to become licensed. If they do wait it may be only until their benefits kick in but most will start taking college classes toward the degree at their first chance.
 
Yes.



For the BLS fire departments, I suspect a lot of the fire fighters became EMTs just because of the job requirement, not because they wanted to be. In that case, again, I don't believe they are good EMTs.

I believe JROD is from Alameda County and this should sound familiar to him.

Last year the city of Oakland, CA decided to drop the EMT requirement from the application for firefighter since officials were concerned it limited attracting a good selection of candidates. Over 10,000 applicants showed up and put Oakland into the funny (haha) section of national news.

Of course, you can also look at Florida and other Fire based EMS states, the Paramedic is only a few hundred hours which still puts a thousand or so applicants showing up at a job opening line.

If you look at it from this perspective, JROD may have a point. Those who run through the medic mills just to get a certification are not good examples for the results of more education. Although it is difficult to see a few hundred hours as education to be a licensed professional.

Learning street smarts as an EMT-B is not a substitute for getting more education in a broken system. It just adds to the problem and gives some an excuse not to advance.
 
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