Exchanging phone numbers with patients

[RedBlanketRunner]

if you are giving out your station's private business number to the general public, so they can relay assist or comfort requests, then it is no longer private.

That was a point of discussion and even contention that went all the way up to the physicians meetings and EMS. The ER lifeline and TTY numbers were publicly available as well as a FD first responder list so why should the ambulance service be excluded?
Our station had a phone line dedicated to that service and a database of regular customers. Rural communities are more accommodating. I'd have serious doubts about such systems in big cities.

 

[DrParasite]

That was a point of discussion and even contention that went all the way up to the physicians meetings and EMS. The ER lifeline and TTY numbers were publicly available as well as a FD first responder list so why should the ambulance service be excluded?

You misunderstood: I wasn't saying if you should or should not have your station number listed, but rather if you have a "private" phone number for your station that is available to the public, and you ok with member of the public calling your station on that number, than that private phone number is now a public phone number.

Personally, if someone asks for the number of the station, I have 0 issues giving it to them (it's actually publicly listed on our website). If they ask for the address of the station, they can have it. If they want to stop by the station and say hi, sure, let's set something up. I will even give them my work email address.

But that's much different than providing my home number, home address, or my cell phone where I can be reached when I'm not at work.

 

[RedBlanketRunner]

This all reminds me of working an FD. Wire down over the top of a car. We called the private emergency services only PG&E number. Was the same public information number with a recording telling us their office hours.
Called the city hall asking for their PG&E number. Same thing. Called the PD. Same again.


Not all locales have the same responses. Out in rural Thailand, a long term vacationing couple from the US had a medical emergency. They called the universal hot line number. Meanwhile, the 'coconut wireless' sprang into action. The neighborhood watch showed up in force, about 20 people, who in turn called others. Two nurses showed up, aid was given and the patient transported to hospital by private vehicle. Nearly an hour later the local FD turned up, two sleepy guys driving a tanker truck. The only 24 hour emergency service was the FD so the hot line call had been diverted to them.

 

[DrParasite]

This all reminds me of working an FD. Wire down over the top of a car. We called the private emergency services only PG&E number. Was the same public information number with a recording telling us their office hours.
Called the city hall asking for their PG&E number. Same thing. Called the PD. Same again.

sounds like someone at PG&E forwarded their emergency number to the business number. or forgot to unforward it to the off hours contact person. I hope someone followed up with them during business hours to get it rectified. in any case, completely unrelated to the current topic of discussion.

Not all locales have the same responses. Out in rural Thailand, a long term vacationing couple from the US had a medical emergency. They called the universal hot line number. Meanwhile, the 'coconut wireless' sprang into action. The neighborhood watch showed up in force, about 20 people, who in turn called others. Two nurses showed up, aid was given and the patient transported to hospital by private vehicle. Nearly an hour later the local FD turned up, two sleepy guys driving a tanker truck. The only 24 hour emergency service was the FD so the hot line call had been diverted to them.

Cool story bro. also completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, but it shows the problem with not having an efficient process to get help. The reason we (in the US) tell people to call 911 in an emergency is to the public only need to know 3 numbers: 9-1-1. 911 is staffed 24/7, if the dispatcher is tied up, it rolls to another psap, there are redundancies in place. the 911 center should know how to contact emergency responders, in accordance to local policies, and (in theory) they should have updated contact numbers for ancillary agencies. information should flow through 911, assuming the emergency communications system is set up properly.

Your example from Thailand demonstrates a broken system. what did the 20 person neighborhood watch actually do, other than old the persons hand and call more people, who needed to drive to the patient's location? What if those nurses were working or otherwise unavailable? What equipment did they have with them? while I don't doubt the nurses were knowledgeable in medicine, without the proper equipment, all they are is an educated spectator. Sure, the easiest option would have been to call a taxi, and have the driver take them to the nearest hospital.

Those two "sleepy guys" are the AHJ responders; idk why it took them an hour to get there, nor why an ambulance wasn't sent as well? Is the FD the emergency services, so it was appropriate to send them? were they tied up on another assignment, and that's why it took an hour? maybe they were 30 miles away, and they have a coverage area that is 1000 sq miles, so that hour long response is acceptable by the local population? I don't know, but this looks like another one of your hard-to-believe stories that is made up to support your hair-brained ideas.

BTW, if someone calls our fire station reporting an emergency, we still tell them to call 911. why? because no fire station is staffed 24/7. even ones with full time staffing are not always waiting at the phone (they might be on another run, training outside, getting food etc). that's why we tell people to call 911. not only that, but the station they call might not be the closest, and 911 knows who the closest station is. it might not even be our district/city/town/county, they just picked the first number that showed up on google. 911 is staffed 24/7, so there should always be someone who will answer the phone (and before you say it, yes, sometimes during disasters all dispatchers are busy, but that's not the norm, and when dispatchers are busy, field crews are usually also busy). Further, while I can get my entire crew on the engine, many emergencies are more than just a single unit response, which requires (you guessed it) dispatch to dispatch the appropriate units. not going through dispatch slows down the entire process.

since you are advocating for having your station numbers publicly listed, and you tell people they can call you if they need help, I'll end with this: you have a depressed person who feels suicidal. the family knows you told them to call you for help, so they call your station, and no one answers. they remember what you said, so they call back 10 minutes later. still no answer. So they decide to drive the suicidal person to your station (also public listed), because you said you would help them. halfway through, the person opens the door, and jumps out of the moving vehicle, and get hit by truck. DOA.

Can you be sued successfully for negligence, since you were the one who told them to call the station instead of 911? Maybe you should look up with Negligence means to the EMS professional. here, I will even give you a head start: https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/c...ed-for-the-ems-professional-SJyiooSiHtmYsKg8/

 

[RedBlanketRunner]

@DrParasite Informative link. Should be a sticky on the forum.
Professional, legal, moral and ethical considerations will always be a point of contention the world over until such time as level of training and response capability becomes a standard - which just isn't going to happen. 911 went a long way in improving responses and leveling the playing field so to speak, but even in the US there remains a very stark contrast between response capabilities from locale to locale. Some services may only cover a few square miles, others, several hundred. And of course most of the first responders are unpaid volunteers. Essentially, no simple single answer.

As for what goes on here in Thailand, two solid rules of thumb. Do NOT call the local rescue squads and avoid calling a cop if you can possibly avoid it. If you need an ambulance you call a specific hospital. All major hospitals provide their own ambulance services. This is because our normal ambulance-rescue services are a blatant joke, a complete farce. Red light chasers to a man, all volunteer, and in the business for the social status and a form of entertainment. They always drive code 3 and this happens so often without an emergency nobody gives code 3 vehicles the right of way. As a case in point, I saw my first C collar being used about 6 months ago. They still don't have a paramedic program outside of a small area of Bangkok and generally speaking qualified trained responders are about the same level as EMT 1 of 30 or so years ago. The hospitals use nurses for trained responders.
On a scale of 1, lousy, to 10, I'd give Thailand a solid 6 compared to most of the third world. A minus 1 compared to the US and the US a 5 or 6 compared to much or Europe.

I've been in the business since the red blanket runs, no standing orders, grab and run unless instructed otherwise by a physician, and responses reminescent of the Keystone Cops. And there has been plenty of criticism heaped my way by people who apparently think the EMS and ambulance services of today appeared out of thin air. It took the EMS and 911 well over a decade to become fully functional and in places, a centralized dispatch took over 20 even 30 years and had to run a gamut of political bullcrap and contracts being handed out good old boy cronyism style.

And yes, the first ambulance service I worked at was **** ambulance and funeral parlor. Our units were retired Cadillac and Buick hearses. Ask some old timers in the Pasadena area to fill in the ****.

I ask people to keep in mind, it wasn't always the way you have it today. It took over a half century to evolve, and much of the greater medical response of the world is still about where the US was at in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

 

[Emily Starton]

Would this be unprofessional or illegal in any way?

It has never been illegal unless you do something bad.

 

[EMT4LIFE2020]

So this isn’t at all to do with romance. I have an elderly woman who is a frequent flyer, I have her at least once a week when running BLS taking her to dialysis, and I adore her. Her and I have become very close and she asked if we could exchange numbers so she could call me and talk sometimes. Would this be unprofessional or illegal in any way?

I have never shared my personal information with any clients. I never would either.