EMT-B to EMT-P??

[joo]

Currently I'm a pretty fresh EMT-B, have had my card for about a year and have been riding volunteer fire/ems for about 4 years now.

Many, many thoughts have passed my mind about me becoming a paramedic. Currently our ALS is provided by the county, separate from the volunteer fire departments. I frankly would have no desire to work for the county, but have a desire to work for someplace to become a paramedic.

Currently a lot the BLS units in the county are staffed by paid crews during the day. A lot of the paid crews are hired to staff the ambulance but also run fire apparatus all day. In reality they are still EMT's and that is the primary responsibility. There are still volunteer BLS units too.
What have some people done? Have they gone right into school, taken time to get more experience, or do they just jump right into it. I'm near Philly where several schools are offered in either a certificate program or a degree program. (Thomas Jefferson Univ.)

I've also had the thought of getting more time, and getting hired by a local department and working a BLS unit as a FF/EMT and doing that. I still feel like I would have the urge to become a paramedic. (I'm sure others have had this feeling too)

I guess I'm looking for the perspective from other EMT's. My dream job would to be in a fire/ems career department. Currently I work for Trans Care (non emergency transport) and part-time at my firehouse for the paid crew during my time off.

Any advice is very much so appreciated.....

 

[firecoins]

Become a paramedic. Thats my advice. I am currently doing so. I think its worth it. If you want to do profession emergency services becoming a medic is a great way to do so.

People I know who became medics are now working for the NYPD & Port Authority PD of NY and NJ. Other medics now work for local suburban police departments in the NYC area.

Other medics I know are now in medical school. Some have gone to school to become PAs, RNs or RTs.

Many FDs have taken over ALS and are looking for medics to crosstrain as FFs. Florida has alot of this.

You can not lose becoming a medic.

 

[joo]

You can not lose becoming a medic.

My biggest issue is purely cost. In the state I am now, all medic education goes throught the community college. If you want to become a medic you have to be accepted into the program, and then you have to be hired by one of the 3 countys in order to continue your next year in the school.

It kind of makes my local school out of question.

The one I am most familar with in the Philidelphia region is Thomas Jefferson. TJU is about $10,000 for the certficate program that is 1 year.

For TJU you can get a degree and get financial assistance, but I'm not sure what that would run. That's a 2 year program.

I've heard of Eintein, but I'm not familiar with there program.

Is anyone else in the region familiar with the Philly, PA region. I'm in Delaware so I'm willing to travel.

Another question: Is it really worth it to make it a paramedic degree, or is a certificate just as good?

 

[firecoins]

Most people would recommend the associate's degree but I am not one of those. I am in a 1 year certificate program right now. There is nothing wrong with it. I get the same education as the community college.

See if the certificate program in Philly takes student loans. Mine accepts such. Its worth it. My program is also worth college credit so I can continue to get an AA. Check to see if the on in Phili is as well. I would choose Phili as you might get more ALS jobs there the in Deleware, for the rotations. I would recommend the program I am in in NYC as its only $7000 but than you have to travel very far. Commuting cost money but you have time to study on the train.

 

[Tincanfireman]

I guess I'm looking for the perspective from other EMT's.
Any advice is very much so appreciated.....

OK, not to be rude or anything, but first you solicit our opinion, then start throwing in caveats about cost and degree vs. certificate. This leads me to wonder how motivated you really are toward being a medic. Anything worth having is going to involve sacrifice, both monetary and personal. It's a huge financial commitment to be sure, but is it going to be worth it when you're done? FWIW, I'd say yes. You will rarely go anywhere as a Basic or Intermediate, much as I hate to say it. My career path did not include Medic since I was primarily a military firefighter, but I'm still considering entering the paramedic program now that I'm retired and all of 48 years old. The question you have to ask yourself is "how bad do I really want this?" Is it worth the sacrifice in time or money, or are you really looking for reasons to stay a Basic? I'm not saying being a -B or a -I is a bad thing; I've done a lot of cool stuff and I have no regrets about my professional career so far, but if I was a decade or so younger becoming a medic would be a no-brainer. It sounds like you really need to engage in a little introspection and make some goals for the near and long term to decide what's going to be best for you. Just my .02; your mileage may vary...

 

[joo]

OK, not to be rude or anything, but first you solicit our opinion, then start throwing in caveats about cost and degree vs. certificate. This leads me to wonder how motivated you really are toward being a medic. Anything worth having is going to involve sacrifice, both monetary and personal. It's a huge financial commitment to be sure, but is it going to be worth it when you're done? FWIW, I'd say yes. You will rarely go anywhere as a Basic or Intermediate, much as I hate to say it. My career path did not include Medic since I was primarily a military firefighter, but I'm still considering entering the paramedic program now that I'm retired and all of 48 years old. The question you have to ask yourself is "how bad do I really want this?" Is it worth the sacrifice in time or money, or are you really looking for reasons to stay a Basic? I'm not saying being a -B or a -I is a bad thing; I've done a lot of cool stuff and I have no regrets about my professional career so far, but if I was a decade or so younger becoming a medic would be a no-brainer. It sounds like you really need to engage in a little introspection and make some goals for the near and long term to decide what's going to be best for you. Just my .02; your mileage may vary...

Thank you. That helps me a lot. I'm being serious.

 

[joo]

Wanted to bring this back up, but question along the lines.

I currently am employed by a transport company full time, and part time I work 2 seperate 911 jobs. Not really busy 911.

I'm worried that I'm not going to get the kind of experince I should have doing 911 going into paramedic training. I'm looking at going to the Goodfellowship school in West Chester, PA.

Should I try to find a 911 job, or stick with the transport company for experience? Both are around the same pay.

Or should I be worried about experience? It's not that I don't think transport is not an important job, I just think it might be good to have the experience and understanding of a 911 job.

 

[Pittsburgh77]

I'm kind of in the same boat, except that I'm still a current EMT-B student. I'm about 3 quarters into my learning. I've been loving every single minute of it, and looking forward to getting more feild experience outside of ride-alongs.

I'm very interested in continuing education and becoming a paramedic after about 6months to a year in the feild. I was wondering what steps should I take after passing EMT-B class to becoming a paramedic? What classes would you reccommend as a "prep class". Everyone is telling me being 18(soon) would be too young to consider being a paramedic. What do you all think?

Thank you.

 

[joo]

I'm kind of in the same boat, except that I'm still a current EMT-B student. I'm about 3 quarters into my learning. I've been loving every single minute of it, and looking forward to getting more feild experience outside of ride-alongs.

I'm very interested in continuing education and becoming a paramedic after about 6months to a year in the feild. I was wondering what steps should I take after passing EMT-B class to becoming a paramedic? What classes would you reccommend as a "prep class". Everyone is telling me being 18(soon) would be too young to consider being a paramedic. What do you all think?

Thank you.

I've had my card and I'm really glad I have waited to become a paramedic. I'd like to take the class in september of 08, but if I feel I need more time as an EMT-B I'll wait.

I think you have to get the basics down and gain experience in order to be a good paramedic. This is why I'm worried if I should swtich over to 911.

 

[Ridryder911]

Although experience is great, one has to ask what experience are you going to obtain? Does it really take six months on the job to learn basic management? As well, is 6 months performing non-emergency transports, or even being the EVO for a 911 really that helpful, and gain experience? How much, does one really learn by driving to and from the scene?

BLS experience is way over rated. It is the same technique we teach to the common citizen. One should be able to master it while in Basic EMT course, and then build upon it as one learns more in-depth patient care. Again, in medicine there really is no such thing as BLS, or even ALS categories rather patient care. Hopefully, someday EMS will mature and see how the rest of medicine does it.

The real experience is in the back, having the sole responsibility of the patient and intervention needed. Otherwise, the exposure is anecdotal.

For as school surely by now everyone realizes that one needs anatomy and human physiology (college level with lab) to begin with. English, Psychology, College Algebra, Microbiology is just other courses to even start with. That is if you really are interested in patient care, or one choose alternate way and take just is required. The choice and the understanding of medicine, and care you provide is up to you. The simpler it is, the simpler you as a professional will be.

R/r 911

 

[joo]

Although experience is great, one has to ask what experience are you going to obtain? Does it really take six months on the job to learn basic management? As well, is 6 months performing non-emergency transports, or even being the EVO for a 911 really that helpful, and gain experience? How much, does one really learn by driving to and from the scene?

BLS experience is way over rated. It is the same technique we teach to the common citizen. One should be able to master it while in Basic EMT course, and then build upon it as one learns more in-depth patient care. Again, in medicine there really is no such thing as BLS, or even ALS categories rather patient care. Hopefully, someday EMS will mature and see how the rest of medicine does it.

The real experience is in the back, having the sole responsibility of the patient and intervention needed. Otherwise, the exposure is anecdotal.

For as school surely by now everyone realizes that one needs anatomy and human physiology (college level with lab) to begin with. English, Psychology, College Algebra, Microbiology is just other courses to even start with. That is if you really are interested in patient care, or one choose alternate way and take just is required. The choice and the understanding of medicine, and care you provide is up to you. The simpler it is, the simpler you as a professional will be.

R/r 911

I think I am more concerned of the possibility of loosing my skills.....

I have no problem staying as transport until I go to school, and even through-out school. I am a good self-teacher and right now I am studying through a book A&P. The nice advantage to the transport is it allows me time to study, and that is a plus. If I was to go to a busy 911 system I might not be able to do that.

What are you recomending R/R? Are you saying to not worry about 911 or transport and focus on the other schooling such as A&P? Think of the transport as a job and work a few other 911 part time jobs?

Can you explain what you mean by this?

The real experience is in the back, having the sole responsibility of the patient and intervention needed. Otherwise, the exposure is anecdotal.

 

[Ridryder911]

If you notice, it is usually Basics that always describe " the need to have BLS for a year, or one has to master the basics" etc. The basics are not hard to master. That is why they are called basics. Everyone should have mastered them while in EMT school or should had never been passed through, if they are still attempting to do such, they had a lousy program. I have yet seen very many Paramedics ever describe "I wished I would had stayed a basic just for one more year, before moving on"...

Any job will get you experience if you apply yourself right. One needs to really think of how many sets of vital signs and spinal immobilization's before they have "mastered" such basic skills? Does experience count.. yes, but appropriate experience.

I see too many young EMT's that have a potential to be a damn good medic that never reaches that goal, all because " they are going to get experience first, " or are awaiting for a 911 job", or "don't have the money yet" and so on and so on. Five years later, they are still the EVO only now have become an disgruntled EMT, or become so complacent and comfortable in their "safe zone"; that they will never move up past the entry point. In real terms only gave minimal patient care during their career. It is those that I feel are a shame, because they had the potential and never used it.


Don't worry so much about your skills. If you were really taught right and are comfortable and had master them, review every so often, they will come back. If you are really worried, review from time and time, practice them, assist in a EMT class, etc. Again these are common skills, that once employed will soon return and you will still need to hone and fine tune them, . Enroll in school, take a in-depth anatomy and then physiology course. Knowing the parts and how the body works is much more important than worrying about keeping up on exactly what strap is buckled first on a KED. Again, before returning to the field you will intensely review. You will be amazed how much of it will return in a short period of time.

Go to school obtain the basics (general education) as much possible, enroll in a Paramedic class and advance your career. The longer you wait, the less experience and professional movement you are missing. This means financially and professionally.

Good luck!

R/r 911

 

[joo]

You are a good man, thanks for the advice.

 

[firecoins]

If you notice, it is usually Basics that always describe " the need to have BLS for a year, or one has to master the basics" etc. The basics are not hard to master. That is why they are called basics. Everyone should have mastered them while in EMT school or should had never been passed through, if they are still attempting to do such, they had a lousy program. I have yet seen very many Paramedics ever describe "I wished I would had stayed a basic just for one more year, before moving on"...

I have a different take.

EMT-B class really doesn't help master the basics. It shows you the basics. You have to repeat the basics back on the tests. The instructors show you the bare minimum. CPR class is a joke. Patient assesment never occurs that way in real life. Backboarding is more difficult than can possible be shown due to not having to be in mangled vehicles. EMT-B classes lack the rotations to really enhance the material. There was 1 rotation in an ambulance and 1 in an ER. This wasn't enough by far. Its one thing to know the basics. Its another to run a call.

 

[reaper]

Sounds like you went to a bad school!

That is why you need to research schools to make sure you get a education.

 

[firecoins]

Sounds like you went to a bad school!

That is why you need to research schools to make sure you get a education.

I did and I find most EMT-B classes everywhere are just as bad. I have taken the class 2x in different locations with different intructors with the same result. There are threads on this very forum describing the same deal in other parts of the country.

It boils down that there is no substitute for experience. EMT classes don't require very much in the way of rotations. The EMT class can not simulate a car accident and give each student the opportunity to run it like they are in charge. A 150 hour couse simply isn't enough education.

 

[reaper]

Our EMT classes require 6-12hr ems clinicals and 6-12hr er clinicals.
They do full extrication classes. When you finish, you know how to work a truck.

This is not typical for most states, but this is how it should be.

 

[Arkymedic]

I'm kind of in the same boat, except that I'm still a current EMT-B student. I'm about 3 quarters into my learning. I've been loving every single minute of it, and looking forward to getting more feild experience outside of ride-alongs.

I'm very interested in continuing education and becoming a paramedic after about 6months to a year in the feild. I was wondering what steps should I take after passing EMT-B class to becoming a paramedic? What classes would you reccommend as a "prep class". Everyone is telling me being 18(soon) would be too young to consider being a paramedic. What do you all think?

Thank you.

Not trying to bring a cloud above you but I got my EMT at 18 and could not really use it. Many places will not even hire you to drive til you are at least 20-25 so besides hospital and volunteer I had no real way to use it. I encourage people to go to paramedic school but I also want them to understand what they are getting themselves into. I also personally feel you should be a basic at least 1-2 yrs before being allowed to start medic but that is just my two cents. Rid I also understand and know the point you are making as well. I guess I have just seen too many people handed a basic card one day and the next day they are in Paramedic school without a clue of what EMS truly is. Having experience may be overrated but I would rather have a medic that is a strong EMT as well as understanding the advanced. Too many people forget BLS when they learn ALS.

 

[Ridryder911]

I agree experience is great, however; one will obtain it no matter what level. If more students were vocal to their state EMS, and education institution then possibly changes would occur. I definitely agree things need to change, and the students (and patients) are the ones that suffer from it.

In my state the Basic is required 48 hr prehospital and 24 ER and like others described very little occurs. Again, one needs to review most Basic clinicals are designed as "observation" clinicals only. As well, the current basic material is equal to or minimally above the first aid level for the common layman. The material and education needed to provide adequate care for prehospital care is not offered in the Basic EMT curriculum.

What difference would it matter if one was a Basic EMT for 1-2 years, and only went on 5 calls, or if one went on 2000 calls and never performed any direct patient care? I know of many EMT's that respond with one of the busiest EMS systems and has yet ever placed a KED on. The F.D. performs all extrication and immobilization skills. So where does this place them? I also realize each call is unique and one can only perform that skill on that call, each will be different.

Again, experience is nice, and definitely is important; but NOT essential to enter Paramedic school. Remember, when one is working for three years as a Basic and one is in school for two and comes out as a Paramedic for one year, which has the most patient contact and care experience? Which will making more money, and as will be promoted upwards? Which is in demand for a job? Meanwhile, the Basic will be at the same point they were to begin with. Hoping to keep their position, and at a significant lower pay.

Does medial schools require experience, does P.A. schools, nursing, etc.? No, and the reason is they have met their education needs and requirements prior to discharging and graduating students. Unlike EMS courses, that take the easiest and shortest the route possible. Again, most assume a 200 hour night time course is extreme when most general P.E. courses are more in length.

I truly believe that EMT programs should be totally separated from Paramedic programs. Similar to nurses aide programs are never a part of RN school or associated with each other. In similarity, both work on patients and relieved or directed by higher licensed person. Rather, EMT programs should be designed as they are currently.. first responder and initial treatment until professional assistance arrives.

 

[firecoins]

Does medial schools require experience, does P.A. schools, nursing, etc.? No, and the reason is they have met their education needs and requirements prior to discharging and graduating students. Unlike EMS courses, that take the easiest and shortest the route possible. Again, most assume a 200 hour night time course is extreme when most general P.E. courses are more in length. .

Many PA schools do require experience. It used to be mandatory but that is disappearing. Although your point is taken.

EMT class does not require enough rotations. Well not in the NY/NJ/PA/Ct area.