Electronic Devices in the Classroom: Whats your policy?

[JPINFV]

there are changes. ever if it's just the ratio's of compression to ventilation, there are changes.

You're right there are changes. Those changes are published every 5 years in Circulation before they even 'train the trainers.' There isn't some sort of special refresher course every time evidence based medicine changes or every other sort of guideline changes. What makes CPR so special that I have to watch a video to tell me that the ratio changes, when I knew the ratio changes because I read the paper where AHA announces the changes as well as the rational behind said changes?

and yet, your bosses want an instructor giving the presentation. go figure. What is so hard about just doing what is asked of you?

So we should just do what our "bosses" say and never ask "What's the point?" nor advocate for change when the answer leaves us lacking? That's the entire point of the ACEP position paper in regards to residency trained EM physicians. If every AHA _LS policy has the footnote of "consult experts," why should the experts have to sit through AHA training? Shouldn't the experts be up to date on the evidence based science anyways?

honestly? you don't. but much of education comes down to the lowest common denominator, so if the hospital requires every one to have a AHA CPR card, than the head of the cardiology department needs to sit through the same video. Why don't you just help someone in class who isn't as smart as you?

1. The head of cardiology doesn't need ACLS training any more than the board certified emergency physician.
2. Physicians, by and large, aren't "employees" of hospitals. We're contractors.
3. Requirments can be changed and should be tailored to the education of each group. Why should an expert in the subject matter be requried to take base level merit badge courses?

 

[JPINFV]

Yes but most don't have to do cpr especially if they are not an emt/medic also that is why arc lets you challenge the course

If someone needs to do compressions while waiting for the calvary to arrive, that physician better be doing compressions. Sure, we might get switched out quickly to run the code, but I digress. Additionally, any medical student who is rotating through a hospital with any sort of acuity will have plenty of oppertunities to do compressions while responding to both inhospital codes and prehospital codes that are transported to the hospital.

 

[NPO]

If you are holding an in house training do you want the trainees ignoring you, sleeping or texting away while your trying to educate. Apparently that's different because its firefighting :unsure:

So I ask the instructors of the forum. Whats your policy?

My situation is a little different. Most of my students are happy to learn and their minds are sponges as I work with EMT students. I also believe its their choice to do what they want. They are paying for their seat so if they want to goof off and ignore what's going on, fine. But don't detract from others learning.

In your situation I think you're not wrong. Personally I don't have a "no cellphone policy" in fact, I encourage it. Students often ask "why?" or a specific statistic. To me the best part of teaching is learning. If they ask something I don't know, or something I say comes into question I have no quams about finding the correct answer. Pull out your phone and fine a (reputable) answer. But that's me and I grew up in the generation of cell phones.

Heck, if I was you and he said that go me I'd assign everyone to write an essay on the effectiveness of quality CPR, ventilations and what gives the best chances of ROSC.

But something tells me those essays would never be turned in.

 

[Carlos Danger]

I can see the both sides of the whole alphabet course thing.

On one hand, of course physicians don't need to be formerly "instructed" on simple guideline changes, especially by instructors who usually have much less training on the subject matter than the physicians do. I can certainly see why ED doctors who keep up with the literature and run codes often feel like it's a waste of time, if not insulting, to be required to sit through ACLS every 2 years.

On the other hand, doctors are people too, and the reality is that many clinicians, physicians included, simply won't keep up with these changes on their own. We've all seen examples of doctors in the ED and elsewhere who weren't nearly as up on the algorithms as the paramedics. To some degree this might be understandable, since running codes is actually a small part of what most physicians do, and many have the attitude that the minor changes in these guidelines are unimportant and very unlikely to impact outcomes. Is it really that big a deal if we forget parts of the update we read a while back and still give some atropine to someone in asystole, or give some epi after the vaso?

Personally, I like the idea of alphabet courses for keeping everyone - paramedics and physicians, nurses and respiratory therapists - updated and on the same page. Everyone knows the same guidelines and the rationale for them. It doesn't work for everything obviously, but for events that are amenable to a standardized approach, I think they make sense. But I certainly understand why people don't like to be told that they have to sit through the courses. Perhaps if the programs were taught better people wouldn't mind quite so much.

 

[I love ems]

CPR Instructor

I have my students turn there devices on vibrate and that way they can answer them in case of an emergency. Phone calls and texting are for breaks.
If your students are falling asleep it may be that you are boring! Try to step it up a little. Anytime I have fallen asleep in a class it was because the instructor was as dry as a bone, or presented the material in a style that I don't learn well by. Lets face it, the AHA CPR videos are a drag and nobody likes them.

 

[Kevinf]

I tend to agree with the above... treat your students like adults (meaning also that you are willing to kick out anyone who is a disturbance to the class after one warning... it goes both ways) and make sure that you are engaging the classes attention. If the instructor is interesting, the students will stay interested.

 

[hogdweeb]

I'm not an instructor of any sort...but when im in class, even if it "just a cpr" refresher... I like everyone to be paying attention. I dont want to be first on scene with a CPR, and the next guy was texting the whole time and forgot what to do cause its been 3 years since he needed it. Unfortunately...your issue is the same with the dept im on. people dont take training seriously. if its firematics...our lives depend on it. if its medical, our neighbors and complete strangers lives depend on it. theres no difference in how serious we should take it.

 

[JPINFV]

I'm not an instructor of any sort...but when im in class, even if it "just a cpr" refresher... I like everyone to be paying attention. I dont want to be first on scene with a CPR, and the next guy was texting the whole time and forgot what to do cause its been 3 years since he needed it. Unfortunately...your issue is the same with the dept im on. people dont take training seriously. if its firematics...our lives depend on it. if its medical, our neighbors and complete strangers lives depend on it. theres no difference in how serious we should take it.

It's a false assumption to think that everyone needs information spoon fed to us. If the JNC changes the guidelines for diagnosing and treating HTN, they don't expect all of the physicians to run out and take a course to have it taught to us.

 

[hogdweeb]

It's a false assumption to think that everyone needs information spoon fed to us. If the JNC changes the guidelines for diagnosing and treating HTN, they don't expect all of the physicians to run out and take a course to have it taught to us.

youre right, we dont and shouldnt need the info spoon fed to us. but if youre going to sit in a class...pay attention.

 

[mycrofft]

As ARC instructor and also doing the ASHI thing for pay at sites:
1. I prefer the devices off. If they bug anyone they need to go off or the holder needs to go in the hall.

2. I had a class of overgrown at-risk-youths (all had hit 21 yrs or more), some defiantly texted etc in class, but we just pressed on. They did as del as those who didn't, and this was not a refresher.

So, I say to my classes that while I don't appreciate devices ringing and texting going on, I only insist upon it not being an interruption, and that they be off during the test. (Then we don't test half the time, either IAW new ARC rule, or with ASHI because their floor work was pristine). If they miss something and don't pass, it is their fault. I have extremely little of it going on nowadays.

I'm unimpressed by the "studies" (opinion pieces) purporting that accessing internet while I'm presenting a curriculum (don't choke, DE! ) actually improves the experience.

 

[gotbeerz001]

I'm not an instructor of any sort...but when im in class, even if it "just a cpr" refresher... I like everyone to be paying attention. I dont want to be first on scene with a CPR, and the next guy was texting the whole time and forgot what to do cause its been 3 years since he needed it. Unfortunately...your issue is the same with the dept im on. people dont take training seriously. if its firematics...our lives depend on it. if its medical, our neighbors and complete strangers lives depend on it. theres no difference in how serious we should take it.

For what it's worth, I can listen and check email at the same time. I can have text message conversations going on and not really miss what you are saying. I was a doodler in high school. Once u say something new or start describing a concept that I don't fully understand, I will perk up and engage. I know that not all people are like this so I make sure that I am not disruptive. When I teach, I give the benefit of the doubt to those who don't look as if they are paying attention. If I am teaching a 40-hour course, I will know by the end of the first day exactly what kind of student you are by the questions you ask and how you are with the practical exercises.

Honestly, CPR is CPR. Push hard and fast. If you really think it is more complex than that, you are the one who needs to be listening. Worry about yourself... I'm good.

 

[emtnoah]

Every class I have been in is the exact same. No electronics. If you get tired stand up. 50 minutes of lecture followed by a 10 minute break.

Same here. Except not as long. Lol!

 

[mycrofft]

Honestly, CPR is CPR. Push hard and fast. If you really think it is more complex than that, you are the one who needs to be listening. Worry about yourself... I'm good.

Well, you have layperson hands only CPR down pat. Congratulations.:rofl:

(Was that a joke? Did I get punked?).

 

[mycrofft]

Same here. Except not as long. Lol!

I give my full day classes a 45 min lunch and they often opt to press on through the afternoon.