Duty to Act while on duty

[CAOX3]

Here you go
http://www.sacdhhs.com/CMS/download...ical_Emergencies_by_ALS_and_BLS_Providers.pdf

Sounds reasonable to me, then again do we really need a policy to determine if an unoccupied ambulance should should stop at the scene of an emergency where no others responders are present.

Seems like common sense to me but I don't work in an area with ongoing turf wars
, if there is an emergency you stop, initiate treatment if need be and hand off to the local ems provider when they arrive, its professional courtesy.

I have arrived at many many scenes where out of town ambulances or IFT trucks have stopped to assist, initiated treatment and so on. I thank them for their assistance and get on with it. There have even been times where they have formed a rapport with the patient and initiated treatment, there is no point starting over again. I assist them with packaging help them pick up there equipment or whatever and then they transport. I advise dispatch what s going on, if I think its logical for them to continue treatment and transportation that's what we do. I don't need an ok from any dispatcher, I make the decisions on scene. If its in the best interest of the patient to continue on with that provider, rather then having me start over from point a, that'd what we do.

Its about patient care, not about beauracratic politics and imaginary lines drawn in the sand.

 

[looker]

Sounds reasonable to me, then again do we really need a policy to determine if an unoccupied ambulance should should stop at the scene of an emergency where no others responders are present.

Seems like common sense to me but I don't work in an area with ongoing turf wars
, if there is an emergency you stop, initiate treatment if need be and hand off to the local ems provider when they arrive, its professional courtesy.

.

Unfortunately that type of policy is needed. Mainly from company liability point of view. If inexperienced crew stops at an accident scene and screw something up badly to the point where it is determine that crew were negligent, the company will get sued. With this type of city/county policy in effect the company got some defense. Yes our crew wasn't experience in this type of emergency but according to xyz city policy we were legally required to stop and assist.

 

[Akulahawk]

Unfortunately that type of policy is needed. Mainly from company liability point of view. If inexperienced crew stops at an accident scene and screw something up badly to the point where it is determine that crew were negligent, the company will get sued. With this type of city/county policy in effect the company got some defense. Yes our crew wasn't experience in this type of emergency but according to xyz city policy we were legally required to stop and assist.

The other reason why they'd put such a policy in place is that private companies will generally prohibit their crews from stopping to render aid. This is due to the perceived liability issue and a high likelihood that the company won't get paid for the service. Sacramento ALSO put in a "must contact the SRFECC" (aka 911) to advise of the incident so that they can keep track of who is stopping to render aid. This way they know who is actively jumping system calls and who just stumbled onto an incident...

There was a company out here (not any more) that got into trouble for actively jumping calls... and nearly lost their ambulance operations permit... oops.

 

[Sunsetter37]

Basically unless there is specific law that requires non contracting ambulance to stop without being directed to do so by authorized personal they are required to follow the policy of the company. If that policy says contact dispatcher for permission to stop that is what they must do or face being reprimanded and/or just fired for violating company policy.

Yes, and that's exactly what I'm trying to find out; if there is a specific law in LA county or LA city. I'm not actively seeking out accidents or anything like that, but we come across them often enough. If there is a law and my company still tries to install this policy, then that's illegal and unethical.

 

[Akulahawk]

Yes, and that's exactly what I'm trying to find out; if there is a specific law in LA county or LA city. I'm not actively seeking out accidents or anything like that, but we come across them often enough. If there is a law and my company still tries to install this policy, then that's illegal and unethical.

You're going to want to look at the LA County EMS policies and you'll also have to look at local ordinances. Frankly, I doubt that there's a County or City ordinance that directs an ambulance's actions per se.

 

[Sunsetter37]

You're going to want to look at the LA County EMS policies and you'll also have to look at local ordinances. Frankly, I doubt that there's a County or City ordinance that directs an ambulance's actions per se.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I thought, but I hoped someone here would know for certain.

And thank you to everyone who answered.

 

[looker]

Thanks, that's pretty much what I thought, but I hoped someone here would know for certain.

And thank you to everyone who answered.

I am not aware of any regulation that requires an ambulance in the city of LA to stop at an accident scene. I checked the latest revision to the rules of ambulance and there is nothing about that issue.

 

[Farmer2DO]

Are you asking if you can disobey your company policy? Sure but you can also get fired and/or reprimanded. Basically the company is covering its *** by having this policy.

Lets for example assume that you driving down the road and come upon head on collision between two vehicles. You're just IFT ambulance and only have basic supplies. After everything is said and done one of the person is paralyzed for life. Guess what that person will be doing? That is right he/she will be suing everyone they can including you asserting that because of your lack of experience/skills you were negligent which resulted in that person becoming paralyzed.

Basically unless your dispatch directs you stop and/or emergency dispatcher or someone else with authority to order you to stop you notify your dispatch and maybe call 911 to report the accident and continue on your way.

A lot of companies have similar policy simple because of extra liability.

In New York State, an ambulance is an ambulance, and they all must be certified by the State Department of Health. That means they are all stocked with essential supplies, and at least one of the people on board must hold a valid EMT card. Is it different elsewhere? If you are only doing IFTs, does that mean you don't need to carry the same supplies an ambulance does that takes 911 jobs? If it's not different, then there's no reason any ambulance can't provide BLS. If you have a concern that your crew is so inexperienced that they can't handle the BLS of an MVA, then they shouldn't be on their own.

If you drive by, in your big billboard on wheels, and ignore an accident, I would think that would very much set you up for "my {baby, mother, husband} died because XYZ ambulance didn't stop!" It would also be bad press to be on the 11 o'clock news after a bad patient outcome. Sure, liability is always an issue. If the company is THAT worried about it, I suggest they get out of the EMS business.

My response would be "We're being waved down by bystanders. Stopping to check. Will advise with more info."

 

[looker]

In New York State, an ambulance is an ambulance, and they all must be certified by the State Department of Health. That means they are all stocked with essential supplies, and at least one of the people on board must hold a valid EMT card. Is it different elsewhere? If you are only doing IFTs, does that mean you don't need to carry the same supplies an ambulance does that takes 911 jobs? If it's not different, then there's no reason any ambulance can't provide BLS. If you have a concern that your crew is so inexperienced that they can't handle the BLS of an MVA, then they shouldn't be on their own.

If you drive by, in your big billboard on wheels, and ignore an accident, I would think that would very much set you up for "my {baby, mother, husband} died because XYZ ambulance didn't stop!" It would also be bad press to be on the 11 o'clock news after a bad patient outcome. Sure, liability is always an issue. If the company is THAT worried about it, I suggest they get out of the EMS business.

My response would be "We're being waved down by bystanders. Stopping to check. Will advise with more info."

In California an ambulance do not get "certified" by the state. EMT's get their license from the state in addition to any local certification that might be required. The only certification if you even want to call that, that an ambulance get is inspection by California Highway Patrol and also by some city. If i recall correctly emt in California can administer asa,o2, epi, nito,ipecac, , im atropine,charcoal. No IV starting or anything like that. Yes an Ambulance have enough supply to do BLS 911 but 1) There is no regulation/requirement that they stop unless given permission and 2) Even if they stop they are required to call 911 and 99.9% of the time either 911 contracted ambulance will come or LAFD ambulance will. You going by will not result in any liability as there is no requirement for you to do so. Now if you get flag down and you're not on any call you must follow company protocol. Notify dispatcher and call 911. At the end of day it's all about money and liability.