Do you ever get soooo tired of hearing laypeople diagnose "stomach flu"?

[mycrofft]

I've heard it applied when the outcome was for poisoning, pregnancy, and ulcer. ANy other ones?
And why are people so resistant to the concept that flu (influenza) is a respiratory disease? (Remember the swine flu scare, and people stopped eating pork? Nice time to stock up on tenderloins, the price fell).

 

[Aprz]

I think it's a good way to have a conversation. Educate them on what you know. It'll probably make their experience a little bit better and will be a "fun fact" for them in the future.

 

[Chief Complaint]

Relax, its just a common way for somebody to say that they aren't feeling well.

Don't read into it too much.

 

[Tigger]

Isn't that why we call someone a "layperson?" Since they don't have the knowledge to know better because frankly, why would they?

 

[bstone]

(Remember the swine flu scare, and people stopped eating pork? Nice time to stock up on tenderloins, the price fell).

Treif!

 

[Achilles]

I've heard it applied when the outcome was for poisoning, pregnancy, and ulcer. ANy other ones?
).

Had a person say she was going Into labor to get out of a speeding ticket, she still got the ticket :rofl:
Not sure if this qualifies for the topic??

 

[JakeEMTP]

And why are people so resistant to the concept that flu (influenza) is a respiratory disease?

Not correct.

Doctors will also use the term stomach flu when talking to people to simplify Gastroenteritis. Intestinal Flu is also another term. Inflammation can be caused by by both bacteria and viruses. There are a lot of causes for it and the severity will determine the treatment and length someone has it. Pregnant women also get it and can cause lots of discomfort.

Maybe you have heard of Rotaviruses or Norovirus. These are infectious types of the stomach flu or gastroenteritis. If your kid and their whole class gets one of these stomach flus, you remember it very well and the pediatrician will be happy to tell you all about stomach flus.

Respiratory influenza is something else and another type.

 

[Veneficus]

People are simple, they need simple explanations.

Stomach flu God's will, Punishment from God, bad karma, whatever works for them.

 

[JakeEMTP]

People are simple, they need simple explanations.

Stomach flu God's will, Punishment from God, bad karma, whatever works for them.

It doesn't make doctors simple nor does it make patients idiots to use terms like stomach or intestinal flu. Gastroenteritis is a very real nflammation with very real causes. Just because you don't know what it is probably isn't the patient's fault.

 

[Veneficus]

It doesn't make doctors simple nor does it make patients idiots to use terms like stomach or intestinal flu. Gastroenteritis is a very real nflammation with very real causes. Just because you don't know what it is probably isn't the patient's fault.

:rofl:

I think you misunderstood my point.

Whether you are a doctor speaking to a patient, or a layperson speaking to another lay person, "common language" and concepts are used to describe complex disorders in a simplified way.

I used some religious examples, because historically they are used to describe complex topics beyond what is fathomable by the masses.

Cue: Pandora opening the boxand letting all the bad things except hope out.

 

[JakeEMTP]

Probably the most common call out reason for EMTs and Paramedics is
"I can't come in cause I got a stomach bug".

Which can be related to alcohol or too much pizza or even gastroenteritis from a virus or bacteria.

I doubt if religion has much to do with that unless it was a social function at their place of worship.

 

[mycrofft]

I'll take calling microbes "bugs", but once "flu" gets bandied about the mode of transmission gets lost in translation. So to speak.

Rotavirus is not flu and does not transmit the same, although hand washing is good for stopping both. It is not a variety of influenza. The only way a mask will help with rotavirus is it may slow down unthinking movements of hand to mouth.

MDs use the word "flu" as a shorthand, but it pollutes the terminology, so when you or your kid come down with a quick respiratory infection with high fever and prostration, and you hear flu is about, you don't associate the two necessarily, because we all know flu is a GI disease. (I have actually heard this multiple times). When influenza is about, we have to reeducate many people so they don't get all code-3 about GI s/s, and ignore the onset (and further transmission) of "true flu".

We also have MDs who will accede to parents' wishes and prescribe antibiotics for viral infections too. Doesn't make it right.

Maybe I ought to have mentioned health care providers who ought to take microbiology and public health courses?

 

[Veneficus]

We also have MDs who will accede to parents' wishes and prescribe antibiotics for viral infections too. Doesn't make it right.

While I agree there is a lot of this that goes on, there is also another important aspect to consider.

Many people get opportunistic bacterial infections secondary to viral infection.

In populations who cannot afford to visit for follow-up care after an original dx of URI of viral origin, I think it is important to prescribe the antibiotic during the initial visit for either prophylactic use or to be taken after a period of time if symptoms continue.

Mitral valvular disease, which is not common in middle and upper economic classes has a pathogenisis of untreated strep A pathogens over a period of years. (which in the short term, the symptoms will self resolve)

However, 50 years later when this same patient is being qualified for an open heart mitral valve repair or replacement, somebody in cardiac surgery will lament that this could probably have been avoided by more aggressive antibiotic usage.

While antibiotic resistance is a real concern, I am not sure that global withholding of antibiotics is the most viable solution. Particularly in the economically challenged.

In the ideal world, patients would come back for follow-up, however, there is a cost associated with this which might not be bearable to the pt. in all medical systems.

If it were an ideal world, nobody would ever be sick.

 

[mycrofft]

Agree to all, but some of these MD's do it because it will shut up the pt and let them get on to their next 15 min appointment slot.

 

[JakeEMTP]

Maybe I ought to have mentioned health care providers who ought to take microbiology and public health courses?

That is good advice for you to consider yourself.

Agree to all, but some of these MD's do it because it will shut up the pt and let them get on to their next 15 min appointment slot.

This website really seems to hate doctors and patients.

 

[Veneficus]

This website really seems to hate doctors and patients.

I don't think that is the case.

I think that it is important to identify failures and shortcomings in any aspect of medical care.

A group of affiliated professionals talking about problems is not hate, it is professionalism.

Pounding on one's chest claiming they are beyond fault or failure with no concern for shortcomings or preceiving no shortcomings is a much bigger problem.

I don't hate doctors, I hate people with medical degrees who do not live up to the ideals of being a doctor but demand the benefits of such.

 

[JakeEMTP]

Look through some of the topics like Stupid Parents which really wasn't at all stupid except for the EMT who didn't know the dosing of valium for infants. A lot of your topics end up very mean spirited. I got the brunt of that when I said there was no need for an iSTAT on every ALS truck when BP, EKGs and ETCO2 are difficult for some.

You went after religion. Someone else put down Armenians. Alot of the topics are basically about how to get out of doing their job without having a lot of medical knowledge to back up what they say. Some talk tough to noobs and tell them not to put people on back boards or collar people probably just to see if they bite and go against their protocols.

 

[Veneficus]

Look through some of the topics like Stupid Parents which really wasn't at all stupid except for the EMT who didn't know the dosing of valium for infants. A lot of your topics end up very mean spirited. I got the brunt of that when I said there was no need for an iSTAT on every ALS truck when BP, EKGs and ETCO2 are difficult for some.

Should the use of any of that equipment be difficult for a paramedic to use?

You went after religion..

I didn't go after religion. I simply pointed out that like in religion, often people are given simple explanations for complex topics, that are usually beyond their understanding, that they can comprehend by medical professionals.

I do it all the time for patients.

I have a rather good understanding of pathophysiology and I can overwhelm a great deal of people speaking about it at my level.

That is of no benefit to a patient at all, especially when trying to give them instructions.

Someone else put down Armenians..

When I read it, it sounded like he was referring to shady ambulance companies. He later clarified his comments as such after a warning from a moderator, which is exactly how a forum should operate.

Alot of the topics are basically about how to get out of doing their job without having a lot of medical knowledge to back up what they say..

I have found a great many knowledgable people on this forum. With varying education, experience, and backgrounds.

A lot of that tough talk is passionate, caring, and knowledgable people trying to dispell propaganda and dogma for the benefit of the profession and patients.

I would much rather have people with that kind of dedication and morality taking care of anyone. Many of them I would trust with the care of myself or my family and I am a pretty tough customer.

Some talk tough to noobs and tell them not to put people on back boards or collar people probably just to see if they bite and go against their protocols.

That is not my read of it.

It appears to me they are sharing knowledge which has compelling evidence and logic which goes against misconception and practice that is enshrined, but may not be beneficial and in some cases harmful to patients.

In EMS particularly, new people are taught there is only one right way and true path. It is a teaching tool. It helps them pass. It helps them not to overstep their bounds.

But it is not always right or the one true path. Fortunately there are passionate people here to pass that knowledge on for free.

I have not seen examples of people telling anyone to go against their protocols. Certainly they do not out of malice.

But not everyone operates under the same treatment guidlines and when people ask an opinion, Intelligent, educated professionals, offer such. Which often conflicts with "the true faith."

For the record, I think an istat could be valuable on an ambulance. I do not think it is practical at this time and as such, should not be on ambulances.

 

[Meursault]

Cue: Pandora opening the boxand letting all the bad things except hope out.

But hope did get out of the box, as I recall. One of my professors argued that we've all missed the point of the story: hope was, in fact, a bad thing to the original tellers of the tale and while it might have been merciful that it got out, it wasn't benevolence on the gods' part. It was moderately convincing at the time; subsequent experience has won me over entirely.

Some talk tough to noobs and tell them not to put people on back boards or collar people probably just to see if they bite and go against their protocols.

I tell people, with evidence, how overused back boards are and how they can harm people. I understand that it's just one of the many unethical things we do to keep our jobs, and in my practice, I try to appropriately interpret the protocols, not flout them. Find me examples of posters instructing new members not to board patients when indicated, and we'll talk. Right now, it just looks like your reading comprehension sucks.

On that note, you see any contradiction between whining about people trying to

get out of doing their job without having a lot of medical knowledge to back up what they say.

and whining about people arguing it would actually be in most patients' best interest to

go against their protocols.

?

 

[Veneficus]

But hope did get out of the box, as I recall. One of my professors argued that we've all missed the point of the story: hope was, in fact, a bad thing to the original tellers of the tale and while it might have been merciful that it got out, it wasn't benevolence on the gods' part. It was moderately convincing at the time; subsequent experience has won me over entirely.

I once read that hope is the denial of reality.

Good or bad, I am undecided.