Determining which type of EMT cert to get

OP
OP
NysEms2117

NysEms2117

ex-Parole officer/EMT
1,946
909
113
I would not have resentment(Personally) this is YOUR field, YOUR show, YOU have the better chance on saving somebody not me. Just as the same if you came into my field, my show I would expect the same. It would not frustrate me, because i know as long as i am doing something im helping (i dont have to be doing EMS). I have not been in EMS nearly long enough to tell if CEU's actually do something or if its "for show". This is all ME personally, whether or not other people would have resentment I do not know.
 

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
3,891
2,564
113
I get it and I hear you. It is never a one person show, it is a team effort which is why I stressed the lower levels are very valuable in doing many things which are time suckers but overall conducive to the entire scene running smooth. Sometimes those "lesser" players underestimate the value of what they contribute and sometimes the medics forget to express it.

Would you progress from paralegal to lawyer, pass the bar and then be content continuing to do nothing but last minute and late night research so the lawyer could do his thing? How long would you be happy doing that?
 
OP
OP
NysEms2117

NysEms2117

ex-Parole officer/EMT
1,946
909
113
I also understand what your saying. I mean its tricky with this kind of stuff. I understand your going after the point of your now "kind of trained" in these skills and want to use them, however paramedics are very trained in those skills too. I got involved in a relatively simple LE system in parole. You got your P.O's Senior P.O's, agency aides(emt-b's essentially) that get everything ready for the P.O's, then your Bureau Chiefs(M.C in ems the people that make all the calls). Its just a matter of what your willing to do, and me personally I'm in EMS for the helping aspect, not the "captain america" save everybody's life aspect. I thank you that you are willing to spend some time and go over the ifs and but's about this with me. Also very humble, thank you again :)
 

NUEMT

Forum Lieutenant
210
29
28
Yeah, we get the fact that he doesn't want to go to paramedic school. Most of us believe that taking the easy way out doesn't give you enough education to perform as an effective ALS provider. I don't know how to put it any plainer than that.

I mean, even most paramedic programs barely scratch the surface. Plugging someone in for a third of the education of a paramedic and then handing them most of the same skills and tools is just a bad idea.

If you want to play with advanced skills like endotracheal intubation and medication administration, get the education.


I get the sentiment, but this doesn't seem like the guy who takes the easy way out. Being in LE pretty much answers that for me. The real argument is wiht the states that choose to open positions like this. I have never heard of an EMT-cc or Cardiac .. and I thought I's were essentially done?
 

NUEMT

Forum Lieutenant
210
29
28
In ALL seriousness, with respect to your already obtained higher education and full time career...if someone wanted to be the "best helper" to me on a scene without actually being a medic, then all the needs I have or want are already within your scope and ability. I would not waste any more time on other schooling, that money could go elsewhere.

I need someone to carry things, to hand me things, and to drive with due regard. Someone who can take initial vital signs and realize the value in doing it proper the first time. Someone who knows how to prepare or apply the EKG, someone who can spike a bag and lay out the stuff I need. None of these things require you to get more education and would be VERY useful on scene. If I had someone who did all of this, it would make most calls very smooth.

Yes, I am serious.


NY.. this is really a good ask. I have had EMT's on scene that could literally anticipate every move every opening of a package and every hookup I needed. Strive for this. Get hooked up with some top notch medics and let them sort of teach you the flow. You will feel pretty good being johnny on the spot without being told. Been there. It is pretty fulfilling. It's not tubing someone... but time is precious and if I never have to look up and futz with that tagederm....its a few seconds off my moves.. if that is because you were on it... then you'll have my respect for sure.
 

joshrunkle35

EMT-P/RN
583
169
43
To the OP: I think you've already got your answer. Most people seem to be saying do medic, or don't waste your time, and you seem to have your mind made up. I think, at this point, you're just looking someone to reinforce the decision you've already made, so you can feel good about it.
 

NUEMT

Forum Lieutenant
210
29
28
To the OP: I think you've already got your answer. Most people seem to be saying do medic, or don't waste your time, and you seem to have your mind made up. I think, at this point, you're just looking someone to reinforce the decision you've already made, so you can feel good about it.


He is just new to this stuff. Would much rather he ask and seek answers.
 
OP
OP
NysEms2117

NysEms2117

ex-Parole officer/EMT
1,946
909
113
NUEMT, got it! Essentially be a medics right hand man, they got what they need, everything that can be done will be done. Joshrunkle i havent really made a decision, but more information I got the better decision i can make. I came to the forum because im new to EMS, im not asking LE questions on here >.<. I have my main career setup and now im just trying help the most i can :).
 

NUEMT

Forum Lieutenant
210
29
28
NUEMT, got it! Essentially be a medics right hand man, they got what they need, everything that can be done will be done. Joshrunkle i havent really made a decision, but more information I got the better decision i can make. I came to the forum because im new to EMS, im not asking LE questions on here >.<. I have my main career setup and now im just trying help the most i can :).


Good deal bro. It's actually a good challenge to be super on the spot with stuff. Like just reaching back and being handed the ram without calling for it audibly while making entry, like talking to your parolee and having the locals show up to back you just because..

THe little micro skills are difficult in the middle of the fray. Spiking and peeling back and grabbing with a clean set of gloves makes the world a better place :)
 

joshrunkle35

EMT-P/RN
583
169
43
NUEMT, got it! Essentially be a medics right hand man, they got what they need, everything that can be done will be done. Joshrunkle i havent really made a decision, but more information I got the better decision i can make. I came to the forum because im new to EMS, im not asking LE questions on here >.<. I have my main career setup and now im just trying help the most i can :).

Then I would echo the sentiments. If you want to help me best, and don't want to be a medic, then be a really good EMT. If you want to expand your learning, take classes in Anatomy, Physiology, Psychology, Biology, Chemistry, Statistics, and things like that. Get specialized training like rescue training, wilderness EMS (teaches you to think outside the box), and other certifications like BDLS, ICS, ITLS/PHTLS, GEMS, etc.
 
OP
OP
NysEms2117

NysEms2117

ex-Parole officer/EMT
1,946
909
113
I understand fully, when **** hits the fan, its hard to remember and do all the things you need, but if i get that down as a basic, things go super smooth. Thank you, very very much
 
OP
OP
NysEms2117

NysEms2117

ex-Parole officer/EMT
1,946
909
113
will do josh, those are "specialty classes right" BDLS= basic disaster life support stuff like that correct? You have all been helpful, if i came across harsh I didnt mean to i just could not think of anyway to get my point across besides how i said. Thank you
 

joshrunkle35

EMT-P/RN
583
169
43
will do josh, those are "specialty classes right" BDLS= basic disaster life support stuff like that correct? You have all been helpful, if i came across harsh I didnt mean to i just could not think of anyway to get my point across besides how i said. Thank you

Yes. If you are truly looking for a support function, it'd be great if you knew other, more well rounded specialties, rather than how to do a procedure I can already do (I don't really find it helpful if you know how to do an additional procedure, but don't really know when and why to do it. I say "when" because AEMTs are told when to do it, but not necessarily all of the whole picture of when other things are going on and when not to. Paramedics barely get adequate training). If you have new specialties or other information I don't have, that helps the team. If you just know part of what I know, then you're just a specialized extra set of hands. And right now, you're already a specialized extra set of hands.
 

joshrunkle35

EMT-P/RN
583
169
43
To add to that: the people who are EMTs that are a huge help to me today in my real jobs are the people who have some specialized fire experience I don't know, or some specialized info from search and rescue or technical rescue, in depth climbing or boating experience, in depth logistical support/supply chain training, helicopter operations training, law enforcement training, statistical or QA/QI training. I've never found an AEMT to suddenly offer some advice or help that I couldn't get from an EMT.

AEMTs aren't really there to help Paramedics, they're there to lead EMTs during a patient call, in the way a paramedic would, but they're not a paramedic. Hence my stance of: be an awesome, well-rounded EMT with something fresh to bring to the table, or go to paramedic school.
 
OP
OP
NysEms2117

NysEms2117

ex-Parole officer/EMT
1,946
909
113
well josh i have a question to ask you unrelated to my original question then. As im wrapping up basic school my instructor has been pushing me to wear 2 different hats, an EMS hat and a LE hat. She encourages me to "leave one at home", and i understand that for certain situations(drug abuse or DV ect), but as somebody thats in the field not in a classroom, will LE experience actually help a paramedic? I have a very strong feeling im going to find EMS is exactly like LE where the classroom is 100% different then the field, no questions asked.
 

luke_31

Forum Asst. Chief
993
341
63
well josh i have a question to ask you unrelated to my original question then. As im wrapping up basic school my instructor has been pushing me to wear 2 different hats, an EMS hat and a LE hat. She encourages me to "leave one at home", and i understand that for certain situations(drug abuse or DV ect), but as somebody thats in the field not in a classroom, will LE experience actually help a paramedic? I have a very strong feeling im going to find EMS is exactly like LE where the classroom is 100% different then the field, no questions asked.
Most of the time EMS doesn't translate well to being a LEO as there are two different mindsets that are going on there. I went to medic school with a former sheriff's deputy who worked in the jails. He put it this way "when I was a deputy I was looking for is this guy a threat or not and now as a firefighter/ paramedic, I'm looking at people for are sick or not sick." Essentially what he was trying to convey was how you arrive at a scene with two very distinct trains of thought one is fight or not and the other is treat immediately or treat after more information is gathered. When you are going to scenes each hat you wear will require you to do things differently. Think of it this way you get called to a shooting and arrive on scene, as a LEO you want to ensure the safety of the scene and preserve evidence, whereas you show up as a paramedic yes you are looking for a safe scene but you're immediate goal is to get to the patient and assess them to determine a treatment path. While on scene as a paramedic you are not super concerned about evidence preservation as attempting to treat the patient and get the patient to definitive care is more important than remembering to not cut through a bullet hole in clothing in order to expose the patient.
 

joshrunkle35

EMT-P/RN
583
169
43
well josh i have a question to ask you unrelated to my original question then. As im wrapping up basic school my instructor has been pushing me to wear 2 different hats, an EMS hat and a LE hat. She encourages me to "leave one at home", and i understand that for certain situations(drug abuse or DV ect), but as somebody thats in the field not in a classroom, will LE experience actually help a paramedic? I have a very strong feeling im going to find EMS is exactly like LE where the classroom is 100% different then the field, no questions asked.

Yes. A lot of EMS personnel get "sucked in" and walk straight to a patient and don't keep their head on a swivel and pay attention to the environment.

If you're an EMT, you've spend God knows how much times saying "BSI, scene safe", and yet, most of us overlook a lot about what's going on or what happened at the scene.

EMS get some basic training in evidence collection, and scene contamination, but someone with LE training will prevent me from making a lot of mistakes, because that's not something I do every day.

LE also understand a lot more about psychological factors related to precursors to scene safety changing, and managing unknown contacts (MUC).
 

squirrel15

Forum Captain
299
144
43
NUEMT, got it! Essentially be a medics right hand man, they got what they need, everything that can be done will be done. Joshrunkle i havent really made a decision, but more information I got the better decision i can make. I came to the forum because im new to EMS, im not asking LE questions on here >.<. I have my main career setup and now im just trying help the most i can :).
If being able to do everything on the spot without being asked for a medic is what you're going for. The answer is stay a basic, but you have to earn the experience to learn. Which comes with time and repetition, and from what you've said, you don't have the time to put in to do that. It's not the part time 3 days a month with a medic that builds those skills. It's being on a unit full time, picking up extra shifts and doing the same thing over and over and over again until its muscle memory.

And once it's muscle memory, somebody will change up the bag on you and you won't know where anything is.
 
Top