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It all falls under that noose we call National Security. Not that I necessarily agree with it, but that's just how it is.
D.C. Fire Department Left Out
- Thread starter Jon
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And Jon, while I agree with you that it would be shocking, I don't think that AQ would waste a perfectly good jihadi on a less than optimal target. The stakes are too high, they're looking for maximum gain for every attack. Even though we all have our personal opinions about their motivation, it would be foolish to underestimate the opposition as "crazy" they are just as strategically minded as our own leaders. This isn't a war with barbarians, they are just as adept as we are, just a different set of weapons.
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I completely disagree with this statement.
While I believe should have been done, at a very minimum, is at least let someone in "central dispatch" know about what was going on. That way units could check in to see what was going on or they could have sent it out to via text page or to to officer's MDTs.
rescuecpt
Community Leader Emeritus
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I completely disagree with this statement.
While I believe should have been done, at a very minimum, is at least let someone in "central dispatch" know about what was going on. That way units could check in to see what was going on or they could have sent it out to via text page or to to officer's MDTs. [/b][/quote]
I agree... recalls are hard to do, at least letting central know that they might possibly need to recall could put them in a much better position in case they actually have to.
Shorthairedpunk, do you also think that a standby for a violence in progress is a bad idea? Around here, when PD gets a violence in progress, they notify us and we standby at HQ. But, that's really a domestic/PD matter at that point, so why bother? Why alert the ambulance while the violence is still in progress, why not just wait until the cops settle the situation, then start paging for a crew? Oh, right... because every second counts. Or something like that, at least, that's what I keep hearing, lol.
TTLWHKR
Forum Deputy Chief
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Fire Department shouldn't be involved? It's a military thing?
Where the hell were you on 9/11?
They don't pick up the phone and call a military base when a plane crashes into a building.. They call the Fire Department. They have the equipment necessary to handle the fires and the injuries.
Maybe some advanced warning would make all that equipment effective, don't you think?
Suppose someone is coming in to drop a dirty bomb? Well, if you wait to put your gas mask on, why bother?
But if you know ahead of time, you can be suited up, have your NBC mask and gear on..and be ready to help.
"Advanced Warning"
It'd be like waiting till after you have an accident and slam into the dash; then put the seat belt on.
Where the hell were you on 9/11?
They don't pick up the phone and call a military base when a plane crashes into a building.. They call the Fire Department. They have the equipment necessary to handle the fires and the injuries.
Maybe some advanced warning would make all that equipment effective, don't you think?
Suppose someone is coming in to drop a dirty bomb? Well, if you wait to put your gas mask on, why bother?
But if you know ahead of time, you can be suited up, have your NBC mask and gear on..and be ready to help.
"Advanced Warning"
It'd be like waiting till after you have an accident and slam into the dash; then put the seat belt on.
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Chimpie, I'm curious to why you disagree, I think you place a valid point, if DC were still responding to 1600 Penn. Fortunately, or otherwise they aren't, while I can see getting upset about not receiving a courtesy call about something in their jurisdiction, what we're comparing here is apples and oranges. It would be like alerting the Seattle FD when there is a fire in Portland, OR. Completely out of their response area, and their help isn't needed, or in this case, maybe wanted, no matter the incident. Personal feelings set aside, the USSS isn't a couple of LEOs with first responder patches. They have some of the best training in the world, and yes, that includes medical and fire. When they brought emergency response in house, I'm sure it wasn't a light decision, and they are ready for whatever may happen. They have people dreaming up scenarios to test them against. But to each their own, I'm sure I have opinions that you wouldn't agree with either, and this is just an opinion. 
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Perfect example: My experience w/ Toyota.
At Toyota we did all the security, fire, ems, executive protection when needed, blah blah blah. As part of our duties we did the firefighting for the plant. In addition to hose stations and extinguishers we had one pumper, one rescue and a brush truck.
Toyota had small fires: semi-trucks coming in with the brakes on fire, something in one of the pits catching on fire, etc. We'd respond, put it out, go back to our regular duties. But if a building caught fire, and I mean the building, not a trash can inside, we'd probably notify county of what was going on just in case we needed one of the townships to respond to assist (mutual aid).
Same thing here. Now I don't know if the USSS has any apparatus at their disposal, but you'd think with an in-bound airplane the USSS dispatch/command center would notify the DC dispatch/command center (whatever they call it out there). And if they don't have any apparatus that would be an even more reason to notify DC.
Again, just my thoughts, coming from someone who doesn't know a lick about DC.
At Toyota we did all the security, fire, ems, executive protection when needed, blah blah blah. As part of our duties we did the firefighting for the plant. In addition to hose stations and extinguishers we had one pumper, one rescue and a brush truck.
Toyota had small fires: semi-trucks coming in with the brakes on fire, something in one of the pits catching on fire, etc. We'd respond, put it out, go back to our regular duties. But if a building caught fire, and I mean the building, not a trash can inside, we'd probably notify county of what was going on just in case we needed one of the townships to respond to assist (mutual aid).
Same thing here. Now I don't know if the USSS has any apparatus at their disposal, but you'd think with an in-bound airplane the USSS dispatch/command center would notify the DC dispatch/command center (whatever they call it out there). And if they don't have any apparatus that would be an even more reason to notify DC.
Again, just my thoughts, coming from someone who doesn't know a lick about DC.
rescuecpt
Community Leader Emeritus
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Heck, on 9/11 FDNY called in FD's from Long Island (including mine) to assist in the outlying areas - some companies didn't even have the same couplings for the hydrants, so they got stuck covering the island while the big boys 
)) got to play in the 5 boroughs.
)) got to play in the 5 boroughs.
OP
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What about the Capital? What about the Washington/Lincoln/Jefferson Monument(s)?
Yes, they aren't first due on 1600 Pennsylvaina Ave, but as Chimp said, I'm sure they don't have 3 or 4 or 10 full box alarms staffed, in stations, waiting for the building to be hit with a large plane.....
I'm sorry, Dispatch should have gotten a heads-up. The chiefs and firefighters should have been alerted. They shouldn't hear about a possible imminant large-scale disaster from the local networks and CNN.
Jon
Yes, they aren't first due on 1600 Pennsylvaina Ave, but as Chimp said, I'm sure they don't have 3 or 4 or 10 full box alarms staffed, in stations, waiting for the building to be hit with a large plane.....
I'm sorry, Dispatch should have gotten a heads-up. The chiefs and firefighters should have been alerted. They shouldn't hear about a possible imminant large-scale disaster from the local networks and CNN.
Jon
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I always wonder what would happen if we were called to cover the city of philly. We would be able to make the hydrant connection work, but how do we turn on the hydrant????Originally posted by rescuecpt@May 16 2005, 03:44 PM
Heck, on 9/11 FDNY called in FD's from Long Island (including mine) to assist in the outlying areas - some companies didn't even have the same couplings for the hydrants, so they got stuck covering the island while the big boys
Same thing even closer to home.. not everywhere in the county is the same style hydrant wrench. Valve-wise we run 5" stortz hose, with 5" NST (6 maybe... not 100% sure) on the hydrants. Oh, and most of our hydrants are 3" jones snaps on the side, but we have a few with NST.... ok... I'm lost on the wrong side of the engine bay... HELP!!!!
Jon
I always wonder what would happen if we were called to cover the city of philly. We would be able to make the hydrant connection work, but how do we turn on the hydrant????Originally posted by MedicStudentJon+May 16 2005, 06:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MedicStudentJon @ May 16 2005, 06:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-rescuecpt@May 16 2005, 03:44 PM
Heck, on 9/11 FDNY called in FD's from Long Island (including mine) to assist in the outlying areas - some companies didn't even have the same couplings for the hydrants, so they got stuck covering the island while the big boys
Same thing even closer to home.. not everywhere in the county is the same style hydrant wrench. Valve-wise we run 5" stortz hose, with 5" NST (6 maybe... not 100% sure) on the hydrants. Oh, and most of our hydrants are 3" jones snaps on the side, but we have a few with NST.... ok... I'm lost on the wrong side of the engine bay... HELP!!!!
Jon [/b][/quote]
Should not have a problem with the hydrant wrench...you CAN make it work. Probelm is with the size and type of couplings. There are certain types of threads that will either accept the male or the female will will work OK with but not both.
Your side of the bay is over there...it is a left hand lead...do not take your hand off the wall until you are safely on your side!
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Should not have a problem with the hydrant wrench...you CAN make it work. Probelm is with the size and type of couplings. There are certain types of threads that will either accept the male or the female will will work OK with but not both.Originally posted by ECC+May 16 2005, 09:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ECC @ May 16 2005, 09:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>@May 16 2005, 03:44 PM
Heck, on 9/11 FDNY called in FD's from Long Island (including mine) to assist in the outlying areas - some companies didn't even have the same couplings for the hydrants, so they got stuck covering the island while the big boys
I always wonder what would happen if we were called to cover the city of philly. We would be able to make the hydrant connection work, but how do we turn on the hydrant????
Same thing even closer to home.. not everywhere in the county is the same style hydrant wrench. Valve-wise we run 5" stortz hose, with 5" NST (6 maybe... not 100% sure) on the hydrants. Oh, and most of our hydrants are 3" jones snaps on the side, but we have a few with NST.... ok... I'm lost on the wrong side of the engine bay... HELP!!!!
Jon
Your side of the bay is over there...it is a left hand lead...do not take your hand off the wall until you are safely on your side!
[/b][/quote]Ok.... what about the funny 3-sided ones that are sunk into the top - we have 5-sided ones
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Jon, let's just say, they're prepared for whatever hits that building. When they alienated DC Fire, they had to make sure they were.
Do you really think they are?
They do not have enough suppression apparatus anywhere near enough to help if the fire gets out of hand (greater than a first alarm). Also if a plane into the White House developed more than a handful of patients, they would have to look to DCFD/EMS for help.
Alienating a major player anywhere is poor form, and unnecessary.