Criminal background

[saskvolunteer]

Actually, it's a valid question to ask why some drugs are legal and others aren't. Why isn't tobacco schedule 1 and alcohol schedule 2 or 3 instead of being largely unregulated compared to drugs like marijuana?

I'm not saying it isn't a valid argument. And quite frankly, I'm not fully, 100% well enough educated on all of the variables we could toss into that argument. That's not to say that this fellow's attitude isn't just slightly detrimental to the image of EMS and said providers.

Where's the difficulty in asking EMT's to abstain from an illegal substance? And subsequently follow some pretty simple laws pertaining to drugs?

Personally, I don't like his attitude at all. Plain and simple.

 

[fast65]

Are you saying that for any reason besides the legality issue? Should people who do alcohol stay out of health care too?

Nope, not really.

If it wasn't illegal then I would have no problem using it (read not abusing it), but it is illegal, and that is the basis of my prejudice.

Que the "well you've sped before" argument

 

[BandageBrigade]

I am not going to get into my personal views on whether marijuana should be legalized or not. If you are for it being legal, more power to you. however, take it to your senator, campaign, whatever you need to do. But while it is illegal to use, don't touch it.

In iowa you recertify with the state every 2 years. As part of the rectification process you are asked about 10 yes/no questions. Two of which are have you ever been charged (not convicted) of a misdemeanor/felony crime. If you answer yes there is a section for you to state whether you were convicted or not, and to explain your circumstances/side. Then the state will investigate. I am almost certain having an intent to distribute charge would be a good reason for the state not to allow you to recert. If you lie and the department of health finds out, good luck working in healthcare again in the state.

 

[JPINFV]

I'm not saying it isn't a valid argument. And quite frankly, I'm not fully, 100% well enough educated on all of the variables we could toss into that argument. That's not to say that this fellow's attitude isn't just slightly detrimental to the image of EMS and said providers.

I think it's small fries compared to the myriad of other things that EMS providers do as an aggregate that drags down their public and professional image. In fact, I'd argue that every time an EMS provider justifies a treatment on nothing more than "protocol" is doing providing a greater hit on the professional image of EMS than someone smoking in the privacy of their own homes in a manner consistent with the legal use of alcohol (i.e. not drunk in public, no drunk driving, sober before returning to work, etc).

I don't necessarilly see how his points are too far off. There are plenty of legal and frivolous pursuits that people engage in that can be considered a "waste of time" and can result in serious long term health damage. However if we set a BMI or time limit on how long someone could play a MMORPG, you'd have riots in the street. Albeit slow, fat riots, not to mention the infighting for loot drops or leveling.

Where's the difficulty in asking EMT's to abstain from an illegal substance? And subsequently follow some pretty simple laws pertaining to drugs?

Depends on if you automatically equate illegal with immoral. While not trying to equate drug use (legal or illegal) to the civil rights movement, if you're going to equate illegality to morality, then Rosa Parks should be lucky that she wasn't in EMS. After all, what's so simple about sitting in the back of the bus? It's a pretty simple law. However, just because a law is simple doesn't mean it isn't also absurd given other legal vices.*


*Once again, to clarify. The use of that analogy is to show that simple laws aren't always right, not to compare the debate over intoxicating substances to civil rights.

Oh, and remember all of those bad people during prohibition who used that devil drink known as alcohol. Why was that amendment repealed again?

 

[Youngin]

Just out of curiosity, Cheifbud, where are you located?

 

[CheifBud]

I've already put my $12 in, far more than the allotted $0.02

I respect the law and only break it when it has absolutely nothing to do with anyone but myself. Not every law lasts forever, its called progress. When people just go, "oh hey, its no worse than a few cups of coffee" but until then this kind of proves my point. Everyone hears in school that Marijuana will make you a terrorist or you will melt into your couch and be useless, and as usual with the 'Uneducated masses" they don't question it nor do they take any time to understand it. Its easier to say 'Don't Do Drugs' while sipping coffee/caffeine or taking some painkillers for a headache eating a cholesterol packed big mac and smoking a cigarette. ( I shouldn't have to compare the deaths from cigarettes vs Marijuana)

It's really simple let me describe this very scientifically.

Being high = The "buzz" you get from the first beer or two and tapers off after.
ILLEGAL

Being drunk = pretty much all the way to....dead or passed out on my counter in a puddle of vomit.
LEGAL

If you look at this and go, "oh yeah, that makes sense, then YOU are on drugs"

If I can drive up to 55mph I assume its safe to drive 45mph

If I can blow a .08 and drive I assume its safe to drive @ .04

So, If I can get sh*t faced in my house on a drug that's proven to have the capacity to kill you from an Over dose or over dose complications I assume its safe for me to subtly medicate in my own home with a drug that can never be overdosed on. I really can't see any misstep in logic with this thinking.

Now like I said earlier, If tomorrow alcohol is made illegal then I really have very little to go on and may consider my view differently. But as of right now I can't walk from block to block down town without tripping over some drunk idiot or walking through masses of people smoking cigarettes outside of the literally hundreds of packed bars. I am going to do what pleases me if I can morally justify it and it does not hurt or interfere with anyone else.

@Andrew I prefer not to release geographically Identifiable material.

p.s. If you have Netflix watch the movie, The Union.

 

[EMS Patient Care Advocate]

I would think a lot of these comments are coming out of states that do not have medical marijuana policies. I know of two states where any history of a pain condition brought to a medical marijuana MD will gladly give you the prescription. SO all the crap about marijuana/alcohol laws- get a grip!

I don’t mean to agree or disagree with anyone as this is not a debate. Pot and work- unacceptable. Alcohol and work- unacceptable.

How is a possession of marijuana charge in any way different than someone who drove drunk and received a DUI? Well first of all if you live in my state possession of marijuana is a civil offense and a fine- Not terribly different than taking a sip of alcohol on a public beach.

DUI in my mind is unforgivable- nearly every reader here has been affected in a negative way by alcohol/drugs, either personally or someone you know and love. Don’t be so closed minded, I think your all smarter than that.

---Hey super smoker guy---PLEASE never try to tell me you are safe driving on marijuana. Its a CNS depressant, if you ignore THAT then you ARE a fool. I have worked in EMS for 11 years and spent 2 as law enforcement- no one will want you on the road drunk or high, so don’t try giving an ultimatum that your action are somehow justified because alcohol is "worse". This is the thinking that continues to get you in trouble.

As a more interesting debated consideration for me is this. In this state if an MD gives a prescription for consumption- suddenly marijuana is justified? That SHOULD throw the illegal vs. legal mind set into a whirl wind of moral confusion.

Laws are not always written based on right and wrong- often its money motivated. I could list 1000 laws that would get you all worked up because even though it’s illegal, the only thing you will find wrong is the law.

With ALL that said we are still over looking the bases of the thread question. We are not talking a possession charge, a smoking in your home charge, or even driving while high charge. We are talking something that WILL never be legal- Distribution with intent to sell. The way the law is set up this can literally be only two things – you had a :censored::censored::censored::censored: load because you smoke and hate paying for it OR you are dealer. This means you have been making tax free money off likely; minors, teens, and drug addicts alike. Distributing marijuana without a medical license TO ME would be little different then you selling your Vikodin script. And this is not someone I would hire to access and administer narcotics.

Be honest, if you want to do this for a living its your only hope. This will follow you the rest of your life. Make better decisions! And don’t get caught up justifying your actions.

Just my .02, thank you for listening to me rant and rave. My current challenge to the law is this. In my state medical marijuana is legal and posession to certain rediculous amounts is permitted as personal use (this is the law evolving- as smoker dude suggest). The neighboring state ANY amount of marijuana is a criminal offense and you go to jail.
So if you are prescribed it in state one, and travel to state two- you are now in violation of the law. Its all CRAP in my opinion. Do what’s right, not because you HAVE TO but because it’s the smart thing to do.

 

[systemet]

and I can perform any task whilst high better and with more dexterity, precision, attention to detail, or whatever it may be than someone would whilst being drunk. We pretty much have a society built on alcohol and then complain when thousands upon thousands are killed in drunk driving accidents. I just cannot fathom crashing my car due to the influence of marijuana, it just doesn't seem possible.

I understand marijuana as a civil rights issue. I think it should be legalised. I think it's far less harmful than alcohol or nicotine. I think the current prohibition is misguided, causes untold suffering, and is a total waste of tax dollars.

However, this is where you lose me. It is possible.

Driving while intoxicated is stupid. It's an act of almost incomprehensible selfishness that basically shows that you don't care about your community, or other people in general. There is no question that marijuana will diminish your ability to drive. You just can't do that sort of thing and be a responsible adult.

And this unfortunately is probably the only reasonable argument against legalisation -- we don't have technology right now to demonstrate that someone is acutely impaired from consuming marijuana, and it greatly worsens impairment from alcohol intoxication, so that .08 drivers become even more dangerous.

As an aside from the current stupidity, right now I'm living in a European country where the legal limit for driving is .02. So you basically can't drink a beer and drive, or you'll get a DUI. If you even go on a bender on Friday, and wake up Saturday, you've got to wait until late afternoon before driving to make sure you don't end up blowing .03 And you know what? It's fantastic. If I'm going to drive a car, I don't drink. And I give up a tiny little piece of my freedom to be much much safer on the road. The trade's worth it for me.

Oh, and back to the marijuana, child abuse / neglect is not the sole province of the alcoholic. It's entirely possible to let your marijuana dependence affect your children in a negative way.

Just because a lot of the information about marijuana in the public domain is junk science, and politically-contrived propaganda, it doesn't mean that there aren't real concerns.

 

[AlphaButch]

Back to the OPs original questions.

what do you think i should do? should i contact the dept of health and tell them i was arrested and am on probation, and that it doesnt affect my patient care at all?

also, i doubt ill be able to get into medic school with a criminal background right? if not, i guess ill just wait the three years til its off my record..sigh

Review your state standards and regulations, do the same with your squad regulations. Here in Texas, you or your employer (squad) are required to report it to the Dept of State Health (TDSHS). It may or may not affect getting into medic school (depends on the school). It will most likely affect employment as a medic however and the process of getting state cert/lic as a medic will be an arduous one (if possible in your state).

A possession charge three or more years in the past is something easier to overlook, however, I would not hire an employee with an "intent to distribute" conviction without some very strong evidence of change. I am well within my rights as an employer to refuse an applicant based on past convictions for any crimes which can be tied to the job (in this case, the involvement of drugs).

My personal feelings, when you get into this field - you need to learn and know the rules that apply to you. The morality of those rules is irrelevant unless you're involved in legislation. There are alot of legal things I find immoral, and alot of illegal things I don't. It doesn't change whether they're legal or not.

 

[abckidsmom]

my personal feelings, when you get into this field - you need to learn and know the rules that apply to you. The morality of those rules is irrelevant unless you're involved in legislation. There are alot of legal things i find immoral, and alot of illegal things i don't. It doesn't change whether they're legal or not.

+1000

 

[fast65]

My personal feelings, when you get into this field - you need to learn and know the rules that apply to you. The morality of those rules is irrelevant unless you're involved in legislation. There are alot of legal things I find immoral, and alot of illegal things I don't. It doesn't change whether they're legal or not.

+1001

Very wise statement.

 

[firetender]

EMS has always been a high-risk profession. That's to say its practitioners are a bit more susceptible to using substances to ease the pain (of the work) than the general population. This is true with the medical profession as a whole and the people with the easiest access to the drugs get them.

But the rules is the rules and if society says it's illegal then as a person involved in the protection of society you are perhaps just a bit more beholden to stay away from the stuff that gets you thrown into court or jail because you are in a trusted position. It's not about trust though, it's about suspicion.

Why would you want to put yourself in the position where you'd be under heightened scrutiny? That means stay away from compromising yourself and if you do get popped then you have to be honest and accept the consequences of your choices.