Combative Patients

[firecoins]

you couldn't just find a place in NY to just train at?

Sorry I seem to have hijacked the thread. I guess I am a combatitive poster?

 

[Nycxice13]

you couldn't just find a place in NY to just train at?

Sorry I seem to have hijacked the thread. I guess I am a combatitive poster?

Yea there are places in NYC, but they arent nearly as established. My Brazilian Jiu Jitsu instructor got his black belt under Renzo Gracie. I want a muay thai school that have instructors who went to the major camps in Thailand.

 

[DT4EMS]

DT,
i think those leather restrains we carry are ridiculous. i;m not sure if they are kkk-1822 required or not, they take too long to apply. Especially in light of how fast our bro's in blue can cuff someone

~S~

They still let you have leather? Most of the services around here have taken them off and replaced them with the crappy "soft" ones.

The leather do take quite a bit of time to apply (so do the soft ones). The problem with restraints in general is the lack of training to apply them.

If the NAEMSP took a position stating it takes 5 people to "medically restrain" they ASSume all 5 people have been trained.

Nycxice13, as long as you do what is "reasonable" you will be fine. Boxing, Kickboxing, Karate, BJJ etc can all be useful training to have. Remember it is a mindset that is different fomr the gym. There is no ref, no one to stop the guy if he is eye gouging, fish-hooking or biting.

Even though I love to grapple, it has limitations when placed in an "attacked" situation.

Like I posted earlier, those that attack EMS are usually one of the 5 D's. Therefore they most likely have an increased pain threshold. We also want to avoid things like a rear naked(unless you felt deadly force was justified). Not because it doesn't work, but a lot of courts have taken it away from Law Enforcement. Most agencies (LEO) have stated anything that crosses the throat would be considered deadly force.

The other kicker to that is as a private citizen (not LEO) you have "Duty to retreat" prior to engaging in deadly force.

I hope that helps. Keep up your training!

 

[fm_emt]

They still let you have leather? Most of the services around here have taken them off and replaced them with the crappy "soft" ones.

We have the velcro ones on our gurneys. But we can also get the leather ones from the hospitals. And the spit socks. Gotta have those. We had a nice violent meth head that we had to take down and restrain in the ER. Not very fun...especially since our transport was 60+ minutes long.

 

[Stevo]

They still let you have leather? Most of the services around here have taken them off and replaced them with the crappy "soft" ones.

The leather do take quite a bit of time to apply (so do the soft ones). The problem with restraints in general is the lack of training to apply them.

If the NAEMSP took a position stating it takes 5 people to "medically restrain" they ASSume all 5 people have been trained.

well, i suspect they are a relic that simply sticks around as common fare on many rigs around here DT

~S~

 

[DT4EMS]

I have been digging trying to answer the "why" the leather are gone. I can't get a straight answer yet. I know all trucks must have some restraints on them.

Leather is superior by far. I think the big issue still needs to be.......... why is the patient being restrained?

If it is becuase of "combative behavior" due to non-purposeful movements vs. assaultive actions designed to cause injury to the EMS provider.

In the later, LEO must be involved. It is those cases where providers get injured. Heck, a head injury pateint swinging without purpose is part of our job. A dud high on meth stating he is going to kill you then tries is not. We have no place trying to place restraints on the meth head without LEO directing the task.

 

[MedicPrincess]

*scritches his head* Granted alcohol makes it easier to do stuff you have your mind on, but it doesn't remove judgement, so I'd have to say that's one of the dumbest people I've ever heard of. Tries to act like billy badass and now is going to spend a couple years in prison for jumping a cop. What an idiot. Good riddance, society doesn't need him.

You know, he might just get off. The guy who assaulted me ended up with 6 months.

The guy who broke my partners hand will be getting probation and rehab. Why? Because his blood alcohol was .386, which makes him out of his right mind and he didn't know what he was doing. OH...and I think he said he is really sorry and donated some money to a couple charities.

Its okay though...He can't change the fact that this princess broke his nose

 

[Jon]

We also want to avoid things like a rear naked(unless you felt deadly force was justified). Not because it doesn't work, but a lot of courts have taken it away from Law Enforcement. Most agencies (LEO) have stated anything that crosses the throat would be considered deadly force.

The other kicker to that is as a private citizen (not LEO) you have "Duty to retreat" prior to engaging in deadly force.

I hope that helps. Keep up your training!

What is a "rear naked"??? A choke hold?

The more training I get in armed security stuff... the more I feel that EMT's should carry pepper spary and or tasers.

Pepper spray and Tasers - Great less-lethal tools for patient compliance and crew safety. How can I "retreat" in the back of a moving ambulance? I can't... It becomes a fight, and some times what do we as EMT's start to do? we use lethal force... we grab a solid object (such as a cardiac monitor, or O2 tank) and start beating the combative subject with it... If we had a less-lethal option, it might be a better idea.

 

[firecoins]

What is a "rear naked"??? A choke hold?
.

A rear naked choke hold is where your Right Arm is pit ver the neck. Pressure is put on the 2 jugular veins by the bicep and forearm. No pressure is put on the trachea.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ar_choke.jpg/180px-Maldives25a-rear_choke.jpg

 

[Emtgirl21]

The more training I get in armed security stuff... the more I feel that EMT's should carry pepper spary and or tasers.

At the service where i work we are not allowed to restrain a patient. However law enforcement can do so if they ride with us. If a patient is combative and being transported to a psych facility then law enforcement must transport them.

Guidelines do state we are allowed to protect ourselves. We arent allowed to prevent them from leaving the ambulance but are suppose to ask them to let us stop before they jump out.

If you are willing to do the training you are allowed to carry Pepper Spray.

 

[KEVD18]

i will restrain any pt that presents a significant probability of harm to themselves or another as defined by my state protocols. i failry well dont cate what the etiology behind their actions are. they are being restrained to protect themselves or others, which means they earned it.