Civilian performing cricothyrotomy

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hello,

i'm going off this thread http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=2988 but didn't wanna revive a 2 year old discussion.

I've been doing some research on how to do a cricothyrotomy...i was looking into tracheotomy at first, but learned that a cric would be safest. i go camping a lot and very often it's deep into the mountain/forest in the middle of nowhere inside US National Parks...i'm not a boy scout, but i do like to always "Be Prepared".

So...in some very very unlikely chance that the people i'm with can't breathe, several Heimlichs don't help, and nothing visible or within reach is blocking the throat...i figure i'm gonna have to cut a hole in their throats, i'm interested in learning how to do a cric properly and as safely as possible within the circumstances.

i have no medical training except for cpr, etc. no background in medical/anatomy/biology. the closest thing i come to that is that, i'm a Hemophiliac so I have to infuse myself in the arm via vein with meds every other day.

i put an #11 scalpel, iodine, alcohol, etc in my first aid kit that i always have on me everywhere i go (even when not camping it's in my car, and when camping, it goes in my backpack). i'm wondering...God forbid i ever have to do this, how much trouble would i be in if i cut someone's throat? what if they live? what if they die?

i've read one site that said not to cut transversely, and one site that says DO cut transversely. what is the correct method that you EMTs are trained to do?

can 40% vodka (clear and unflavored of course) be used to disinfect the skin if isopropyl isn't available before cutting the skin?


my interest began when i last went camping in Sequoia National Park...my friend jumped off a boulder into a lake with a rock underwater waiting for her face. it wasn't as bad as that sounds, but there was a huge gash between her eyes closer towards where the nose begins. her nose looked like a glazed strawberry. i held a gauze over it for several minutes, wiped it with alcohol wipes, and put krazy glue over it. yes, i know that sounds crazy...but it looked like it potentially needed stitches and we were faaar away from civilization. well, it worked. she had some swelling in her nose, i changed the bandage later. told her to keep water off of it and leave it as dry as possible. her sweat made the glue fall off the next day and the skin closed itself. i'd like to be better prepared for worse situations. because we usually venture into places where we can't be reached, and we can't leave in only 3 minutes. just in case.

your professional counsel is greatly appreciated :)



(the krazy glue has since been replaced with a bottle of liquid bandaid.)
 
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No one here is going to give you medical advice, or teach you how to do medical procedures.

One of the risks people take when they are in remote areas is not having immediate medical attention available. Training yourself to do advanced medical procedures isn't going to solve that problem.
 
The chance of you ever having to need to perform such a procedure is negligible. If you are interested in first aid etc try learning some skills that you may need to use one day- through a wilderness first aid course etc.

As the above poster said no-one here is going to give advice about how to perform an advanced, dangerous and risky airway manoeuvre, particularly that you are not employed in a EMS/medicine role.
 
I recommend Jagermeister over Vodka.
 
P A U L said:
So...in some very very unlikely chance that the people i'm with can't breathe, several Heimlichs don't help, and nothing visible or within reach is blocking the throat...i figure i'm gonna have to cut a hole in their throats
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Sounds like we have a stage #1 serial killer in the making.
 
I figure you're thinking along the lines of the "they'll definitely die if I don't try it, so what harm could I do by trying" rationale. Don't. Here's why.

To my mind, if you were to "add this to your arsenal", especially given the ridiculously small amount of times it is actually needed, you are far more likely to jump into it thinking its needed and do one of two things:

-Hasten the death of someone who may have been saved by that extra chest thrust that you didn't do because you decided to break out the home cric kit.
-Kill a person who didn't actually need a cric in the first place because you are not a medical professional and don't actually know how to make advanced airway decisions, no matter how many websites you've read and youtube videos you've watched.

Both of the above are ridiculously more likely than you:
-coming across a person who needs a cric, and then
-correctly attempting all of the procedures that come before it, and then
-correctly identifying that they need a cric, and then
-correctly performing a surgical procedure that you are not trained in and have never before seen, done or practiced, and then
-having the equipment and expertise to manage them after the procedure, presumably for a while, considering your location.
 
If I could just point out...

Aside from on TV where they make this event look like an everyday procedure, it is not.

The indication for a surgical airway is not having the ability to control the airway any other way. This is most often the case when the airway suffers some level of dramatic illness or inury. The complications of which will not be able to be managed for lengths of time by people not specifically trained/educated to.

Now I know some military guy is going to chime in with "when I was in Iraq, we did 10 a day."

---That was in a war. On soldiers. Probably from a wound not commonly if ever seen in the civillian world. Where the outcome was going to be various levels of bad anyway. Look at the level of training you received to do that.

Not to be mean, but if I could just make a clarification:

"i have no medical training except for cpr, etc. no background in medical/anatomy/biology. the closest thing i come to that is that, i'm a Hemophiliac so I have to infuse myself in the arm via vein with meds every other day."

So you want to perform surgery on somebody?

What if their stomach hurts? Are you planning to take out their appendix just in case? (see how crazy your request sounds?)

Before you get a blade and cut somebody, you need to know a considerable amount of anatomy. Including the common variations and what you will be destroying in order to accomplish what you want.

There are many things that can go wrong cutting open somebody's throat. Many that end in death or long term disability that compromises the quality of life.

As for the legal issues, you are responsible. That is well beyond your training level and can result in both civil and criminal complications.

Many people think they are just going to "help out a friend or a bystander" But when that person is permanantly disabled, or suffers chronic medical problems, they have to pay for, they are going to look for somebody else to pay. That somebody is going to be the person who cut them.

Don't think for one instance they will be forever greateful to you for saving thier life and not sue you. If that were the case, there would be no need for malpractice insurance.

No offense man, but the only thing you should be cutting with a scalpel is the package, and scissors may work better.
 
All joking aside;

let's say you actually do successfully perform a needle cric; how do you think you're going to manage this airway???
 
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