City to Deploy Ambulances to Save Organs

I can see this discouraging people from becoming organ donors. There's already the myth that EMS/ER staff wont save you if they see your an organ donor. Let's add more fuel to the fire by sending the trucks.
 
I don't know if anyone I have "worked" was an organ donor. Nor would it have made a difference in the outcome.

I have known about this truck since 2008 but it has not gone into operation until now. I am not sure if it is because there is no update on protocols in reguards to calling for it.

We already are cooling people down for codes.
 
I don't know if anyone I have "worked" was an organ donor. Nor would it have made a difference in the outcome.
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Of course not but thats not what some in the general public think.
 
Not sure why you are calling it a moblie butcher shop. It's an ambulance that transports the donor to the hospital where the organs are harvested just like any other donor.
 
zmedic said:
Not sure why you are calling it a moblie butcher shop. It's an ambulance that transports the donor to the hospital where the organs are harvested just like any other donor.
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I thought it was a bit more poetic than "meat wagon."

The popular term for an ambulance that was usually run by a funeral home when all they had to do was convert the yellow light to a red one and back to designate the function.

Honestly, how many viable donors do you really think this is going to produce?

Let's analyze this a bit?


"specially trained team that will monitor 911 calls for people who may be in danger of dying, like those having a heart attack"

When grandpa dies at home, in the hood, from renal failure secondary to cardiac insufficency from uncontrolled HTN, and prior MI with fatty liver change, and blindness from diabetes, you really think that this justifies the complications and cost this can create?

Because when he codes at 58 it was from a freak MI with no other comorbidities?

If they were hunting down potential viable donors, like 22 y/o ejected from a car, or crashing his motorcycle (donorcycle) I could agree that the benefits might be worth the downfalls. As is, I stand by my original comments comparing this to inhuman experimentation.

"If efforts to resuscitate the patient fail, the team will quickly move in and try to save the kidneys"

I am not a trnsplant expert, but from what I have learned and witnessed, maybe the liver would be a better choice. You know not as precise matching required as for a kidney.

But I also have serious reservations about how this actually is going to look and work logistically. I wonder if sensitivity training is part of it? When it comes to manners and sensitivity, no offense, New Yorkers, especially "blue collar ones," doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

"The organ team, which will travel in a bright red and white ambulance marked “Organ Preservation Unit,” is supposed to remain out of sight"

yea, real inconspicuous. I guess we should be thankful it wasn't red and safety orange.

The dead person would have to have registered as a donor through a card, driver’s license or online registry, and the family would also have to give consent.

You don't see a major problem there? In order to stop the family from reversing the wish to be a donor in grief, I think you might have to enact some law to give the victims desire to donate at least the level of living will, or maybe offer the family some cash or other compensation like total funeral expenses.

"The trial, which is being financed with a $1.5 million federal grant, is limited: to most areas of Manhattan, to the hours of 4 p.m. to midnight, to adults between 18 and 60, and to people who die of cardiac arrest at home or another residence."

And who finances it if this trial is adopted?

It's not like there is a whole lot of money laying around to add some more expenses. Why should only New York benefit from this? Why should the rest of the country pay for yet another program to support New York city? Maybe if the locals want this they should pay for it?

(I admit, I am socially liberal and fiscally conservative)

"Dr. Goldfrank said that he would like to see the program expanded to other types of deaths, perhaps even from car crashes or homicides, but that at this point, government agencies were reluctant to allow that. “If we prove that you can take the body and successfully do this, that will be the next step,” he said."

Half assed experiment on the recently deceased. If we prove we can take mostly unviable organs from unlikely candidates, maybe we can expand to likely ones?

"Dr. Goldfrank said that he hoped there would be at least one case during the December-to-May trial period that would end with a transplant."

Lol. Gotta say something right?

"if no organs were transplanted, what they really wanted to test was the protocol, which required a delicate balance of treatment and consent."

Experimenting on a corpse that was aquired from a family during a time of emotional stress that is not even likely to result in a transplant. I hope they are all proud of themselves.

In 2009, about 7,600 people were waiting for an organ transplant in the greater New York City area, but there were only 285 deceased organ donors that year, according to the New York Organ Donor Network.

Hmmm... Perhaps a public education campaign encouraging donors would be money better spent?

Afterall, they are more likely to be successful scooping trauma arrests off the pavement with BLS and lights and sirening them over to the hospital.

I wonder if they do that now? :unsure:

Instead let's try to devise a plan to farm them from families last minute?

A good idea? Really?

"New York City medical officials..."

I am so glad they didn't use the word "doctors."

But this almost has a death panel, government taking away the corpse of a loved one for some poorly thought out purpose flare.

Maybe they could even make sure that the transplants happen over at Dr. Goldfrank's hospital? Because we all know that organ transplantation and follow up care is a total economic loss. :rolleyes:
 
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they should only have one truck. and that truck should try to save them then transport to the hospital no matter what. in non refusal situations. and arent citys *****ing about the budget, now they have to hire more medics or reapers to fill the spots on the other trucks. when they could just hire more medics and put more trucks in service.
 
It's a lot less ethical to transport a cardiac arrest patient lights and siren, doing CPR down the stairs, telling the family they have a chance just to harvest their organs than the current protocol. Here they are doing what they normally do in the case of a futile cardiac arrest, call it in the field. Then another team is coming in with more training and equipment and going from there.
 
Veneficus said:
The dead person would have to have registered as a donor through a card, driver’s license or online registry, and the family would also have to give consent.

You don't see a major problem there? In order to stop the family from reversing the wish to be a donor in grief, I think you might have to enact some law to give the victims desire to donate at least the level of living will, or maybe offer the family some cash or other compensation like total funeral expenses.
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Actually, we passed a law like this last year. Totally stupid though, since the first time the heart appeared on my license it was without my consent. If they want to pass a law to make it opt out, then whatever, but letting the DMV determine whether I want to donate or not is possibly the stupidest idea ever.
 
zmedic said:
It's a lot less ethical to transport a cardiac arrest patient lights and siren, doing CPR down the stairs, telling the family they have a chance just to harvest their organs than the current protocol. Here they are doing what they normally do in the case of a futile cardiac arrest, call it in the field. Then another team is coming in with more training and equipment and going from there.
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I never advocated that.

I did point out that the traumatic arrests or other accidental injuries would more likely produce viable organs than medical arrests at home.

In major trauma, the world over is to transport to a trauma center. If the person is dead the original unit doesn't have to work them, just load them up and drive with the normal flow of traffic.

I think the reaper mobile is a public relations disaster waiting to happen.

My main ethical concern is the fact they set up a program with a very unrealistic goal that is going to impact people. (though not the dead person)

But I also have serious reservations about "talking people" into organ donation by people who are actually sitting around listening to radio traffic looking for an ambulance to chase.
 
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