City to Deploy Ambulances to Save Organs

MMiz

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City to Deploy Ambulances to Save Organs


Some 911 calls in Manhattan will now bring out two ambulances, one hurrying to the scene and one lagging slightly behind.

The first one will try to save the patient’s life. The second one will try to save the patient’s kidneys, in case the first ambulance fails.

After months of grappling with the ethical and legal implications, New York City medical officials are beginning to test a system that they hope will one day greatly increase the number of organs collected for transplant.

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Hmmm....

Don't quite know what to think yet.
 
I don't quite understand how/why that'd actually preserve organs and such. I really don't get it.
 
Save tax money. Train the EMTs to remove the organs!
 
Lol@training us to take organs.
I get that they're trying to do a good thing, but why do we need two trucks for it? Maybe I'm missing something, but what does the first truck do that the second can't?
If the first does save the pt, the second wasted.
If the first doesn't manage to save them, why can't they load and go rather than sending a second?
 
I'm sitting here watching a National Geographic doc, "Inside the Body Trade."

In China, they pick up bodies off the street, harvest their kidneys, and put the body back out for the coroner. The international organ trade is shocking.

This idea sounds neat, but I'd be really surprised if they succeeded in harvesting any kidneys during the study period.
 
What happens when someone is in deep hypothermia or in something else, that makes them appear dead, but they are alive and their vitals are not showing? :o
 
How do they explain it to the family. Folks sorry about your loss the next crew here would like take some parts. It sounds like a Monty Phyton skit...We come for your liver.
 
What happens when someone is in deep hypothermia or in something else, that makes them appear dead, but they are alive and their vitals are not showing? :o

The protocol for organ removal should include language that excludes hypothermic patients.
 
The protocol for organ removal should include language that excludes hypothermic patients.

hypothermic patients get transported to the hospital in NYC. Hence you don't need a truck for them. Hospital staff will ask family for the organs. This truck has been talked about for years.
 
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hypothermic patients get transported to the hospital in NYC. Hence you don't need a truck for them. Hospital staff will ask family for the organs. This truck has been talked about for years.

Exactly.
 
Only in America.

Maybe next the city can outsource it to a for profit company?

They could then bill medicare, medicade, the recipient's insurance or even pay cash.

Who comes up with this foolishness?

Of course if you are going to do it, it should be done with style. The rig should be white with a reaper and black vultures all over it and the crew should have t-shirts that say something like: "farming theirs to save yours" or some other incredibly whacker slogan.

Seriously though, I think it is incredibly overzealous and in extremely poor taste.
 
Seriously though, I think it is incredibly overzealous and in extremely poor taste.

So we should let perfectly good organs go along with the people that need them because it may offend the family of the potential donor? Or is it okay to do it in the hospital but distastful when it occurs at home?

If I die at home, it is okay for them to do this to my family.
 
So we should let perfectly good organs go along with the people that need them because it may offend the family of the potential donor? Or is it okay to do it in the hospital but distastful when it occurs at home?

If I die at home, it is okay for them to do this to my family.



"It sounded like you weren't going to make it, so we have this truck in the wings just in case."

What happens when the locals start figuring out that this truck miraculously happens to be in the nieghborhood everytime somebody dies?

Especially in the more socio-economically challenged areas there are going to be disproportionately lower save rates. What about the perception those "rich folk" let the poor die so they can save more of themselves?

What about the issue it causes when the donor truck gets there first and is just "hanging out" simply because of the location of units on a given day?

At what point does it become organ farming?

From the hospital perspective, when a patient is brought there, there is at least the illusion that all that could be done has been. I know it is no different than a good ALS squad, you know that, but the regular people in the world don't. They can't even figure out what the difference between medics and EMTs are.

The best organ donors are from accidents, not from illness. Most arrests at home are from illness, not from accidents.

At what point does this cease to be organ collection and become organ farming?

From a scientific standpoint it sounds great, more organs means more potential transplants. I get it. But at what cost?

Medicine is already in danger of being a strictly factory endevor that has no concern other than the Frankenstein science of it. Think about this on a massive scale, a bunch of trucks around the nation showing up right after a death everytime and hacking out some useful parts.

Might as well have the funeral homes do it, that way they can provide ALS service, organ donation, and funeral service all at one low cost. No redundant vehicles or persons.

Why we are at it, since we know that accidents resulting in unisystem brain death are the best donors, the next time a jet flies into a bilding we can dispatch the truck and start harvesting off the expectant and deceased bodies right then and there. Black tag now gets you triaged to organ donation.

If you are not going to target the most likely because of protocol, all you are doing is abusing a bunch of corpses and wasting a lot of money for some rather long odds.

Of course if any of the survivors are related, it will increase the odds of a match.

Don't forget, the poorer the people generally the more close their attachment to family. Mutual survival depends on it. If you upset that or take it away, it really is a disservice to those people.

As my Basic teacher once said: "How is this going to look on the 6 o'clock news."

I think Dr. Josef Mengele would be most proud of this experiment to see if the protocol works.
 
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How much would one kidney go for? I do have one that I would like gone...
 
So we should let perfectly good organs go along with the people that need them because it may offend the family of the potential donor? Or is it okay to do it in the hospital but distastful when it occurs at home?

If I die at home, it is okay for them to do this to my family.
I have to agree with firecoins. I've loaded pts knowing I was only taking them to the hospital to die, so I don't see the problem with this as long as the safeguards mentioned above are in play. I am just curious how the logistics of keeping the organ removal sterile happens in the back of an ambulance, but I guess that is the reason for a second truck.
 
The survival rate for prehospital codes is pretty low. Not everyone who codes would necessarily be a donor.

I will see if I can find protocols for it.
 
I can't believe that you are comparing this to the Nazis. The basic facts are if you are transported to the hospital in cardiac arrest, they terminate the arrest in the hospital, the MDs there is legally required to ask the family about organ donation. Now if that same person is pronounced in the field, even if though they were an organ donor, those organs couldn't be used because of the legal issues with transporting a dead body to the hospital. That's all this really is, a mechanism to transport someone who has already said they want to donate their organs and has died to the hospital where their wish can be carried out.

The two trucks things is pretty straight forward, you are separating those who worked the initial cardiac arrest from those who will deal with getting the families permission.
 
What happens when someone is in deep hypothermia or in something else, that makes them appear dead, but they are alive and their vitals are not showing? :o

Standard medical principle:

"You're not dead until your warm and dead"

EMS should never discontinue efforts on a hypothermic patient until they have a warm dead body.
 
I can't believe that you are comparing this to the Nazis. The basic facts are if you are transported to the hospital in cardiac arrest, they terminate the arrest in the hospital, the MDs there is legally required to ask the family about organ donation.

I am not comparing it to nazis.

I am comparing it to a physician who demonstrates quite effectively how the pursuit of scientific knowledge or advancement can be utterly inhumane. There really are not a lot of real life examples to compare that to.

In my opinion, the pursuit of "potentially saving lives" driving a mobile butcher shop with lights and a cross on it, compared to the odds and reality of finding suitable donors and organs is overzealous to the point of inhumane.

The stated purpose of "finding out if the protocol can work" and what that means is the pursuit of science without compassion for "we can do it and what if..."
 
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