CC or Paramedic

[medic6676]

sounded like NYS. get your medic, it's much easier to get hired as a medic than a CC

And while it's true a CC can do almost as much as a paramedic (in an adult cardiac arrest anyway), a paramedic can do much more on pediatrics and perform more interventions on standing orders, without having to call medical control to get the doctor's permission.

I know quite a few competant CCs.... however, those who want to make it a career get their paramedic. Last I checked, there wasn't a simple CC to Paramedic transition course in NYC

You're completely right on that, unless you want to go to HVCC, and tell them you're a CC and they allow you to skip a majority of the days (senseless).

But the one thing I found, and I said this I believe is it gives a good base to build on in medic school.

 

[Carlos Danger]

What I'm flat out saying is that it is strange that you would make the statement that paramedic education in NY is good, and even better than some other states, and yet you had to take both a CC class AND a paramedic class to get the equivalent of a routine paramedic course in pretty much the rest of the country.

Let me make that even clearer. A paramedic course that has a clinical load that only includes time in the ER and one shift following a doctor is nothing to be proud of, and definetly not something that would make whichever state it was in stand out...at least not in a good way.

That isn't what he said.

He said he personally got much more out of paramedic school the second time around (after taking the CC course), because much of it was review. He didn't say that he had to do both programs in order to be competent.

And his reduced clinical time during the paramedic program was only because he had already done much of it in the CC program, and had already been functioning in the paramedic scope. Most paramedic students do the full shebang.

 

[medic6676]

That isn't what he said.

He said he personally got much more out of paramedic school the second time around (after taking the CC course), because much of it was review. He didn't say that he had to do both programs in order to be competent.

And the reduced clinical time during the paramedic program was only because he had already done much of it in the CC program. Most paramedic students do the full shebang.

Actually sadly the reduced clinical was because the hospitals around this area are cutting back on allowing paramedics in. Insurance BS and such. Hell we almost weren't sure if the ER we were contracted with was going to allow us in there. It's pretty upsetting if you ask me, they always complain about things but don't want to help train us.

 

[triemal04]

And his reduced clinical time during the paramedic program was only because he had already done much of it in the CC program, and had already been functioning in the paramedic scope. Most paramedic students do the full shebang.

Actually that doesn't appear at all to be the case. Did you have a point here?

Medic6676, I don't think that you were required to take both classes, but from your descriptions taking both classes is what allowed you to get the equivalent of a standard paramedic course elsewhere.

I stated that while it is not perfect, it is better than a few. I know this because I currently work in one of those states. And I actually was talking about the standards of care, not so much the education.

While the clinical standards were lacking, and by the way I should have explained the hospitals actually prevented my course from doing the time we were supposed to, our education was top notch, and I say this because the educators who taught me are all major players in the literature arena, and one of my educators has written numerous books and is a huge player in the NAEMT.

Every place has its faults, so if you want to question the standards of my system, then please question them. But do so professionally and without the condescending tone you have been using, as it does not show the professionalism that I have come to expect from my colleagues.

To be honest I'd be curious about which few states you are talking about. Didactic and field time in the program you went to aside (because you haven't mentioned what they were), a clinical component that is that terribly lacking is far from normal; I'd go so far as to say that it would be the exception versus the rule. If that was due to a conflict with a local hospital, the fact that the school wasn't willing, able, or cared enough to make alternate arrangements is also a bit curious...a red flag you could even say. And even more curiously, do you not see any relation between a standard of care and the education required to provide it?

Saying that your education is top notch because one of the instructors is "a huge player" in the NAEMT of all things does not go a long way towards proving anything, nor does just saying that they were "major players in the literature arena." Maybe you can elaborate more on what made your program so good, and what makes the state of paramedic education in NY better than in other states.

Really, that's what I'd like to know; what makes the education in New York so good.

Condescending? Not yet...

 

[Carlos Danger]

Actually that doesn't appear at all to be the case. Did you have a point here?

I did have a point - the point is you are wrong.

 

[triemal04]

I did have a point - the point is you are wrong.

I'm sitting here scratching my head a bit...explain this to me. The vast majority, in fact probably almost all, paramedic classes include clinicals in multiple units in a hospital. In the class that Medic6676 went to, for a certain reason, only time in the ER (and OR which sadly is not always part of a normal clinical load) was included. The only reason he spent time in other units, like is done elsewhere, was because he had also taken a CC course.

Can't see where I ever said he was required to take both, just that it took both to be equivalant. So...what part is wrong again?

 

[medic6676]

I actually was required to take my paramedic because the company I was working literally made me in order to get online. So yes I WAS REQUIRED.

Also I never said that the education in NY is necessarily better, but as I have said NUMEROUS TIMES, Massachusetts where I currently work is procedurally behind NY, and they only just accepted national standards in the last year, whereas NY did so two to three years ago.

And finally if you would read my damn posts! You would see that I said my course was lacking in clinicals because the hospital we contracted with literally prevented us from doing anymore than ER time.

 

[triemal04]

I actually was required to take my paramedic because the company I was working literally made me in order to get online. So yes I WAS REQUIRED.

Also I never said that the education in NY is necessarily better, but as I have said NUMEROUS TIMES, Massachusetts where I currently work is procedurally behind NY, and they only just accepted national standards in the last year, whereas NY did so two to three years ago.

And finally if you would read my damn posts! You would see that I said my course was lacking in clinicals because the hospital we contracted with literally prevented us from doing anymore than ER time.

What your department wanted you to do doesn't matter; that was in reference to what is required by New York State. By "not required" what I meant was that you didn't have to take the CC course before you could take the paramedic course; if you hadn't already been a CC, there would have been nothing stopping you going straight to the paramedic. Clear?

I can assure you the education I received in NY, and the care I provided while in NY is better than some states.

Did you not mean that the education you recieved in NY is better than some states? If that's the case ok, you can restate that sentence and move on.

I know why your course was lacking in clinicals; you have explained that. Do you think that makes it ok? Right? If you are going to stand by the above quote, doesn't that strike you as a contradiction, since your school did nothing to find somewhere else to place you? Since they allowed you to pass without those clinicals?

If you just want to ignore your previous statement about education that's fine. What is it about the care in New York that makes it so much better than other states?

 

[Carlos Danger]

Paramedic programs in NYS typically adhere to the same national standards as paramedic programs everywhere else do. Apparently there was something about this specific program that resulted in reduced clinical availability.

 

[medic6676]

What your department wanted you to do doesn't matter; that was in reference to what is required by New York State. By "not required" what I meant was that you didn't have to take the CC course before you could take the paramedic course; if you hadn't already been a CC, there would have been nothing stopping you going straight to the paramedic. Clear?

Did you not mean that the education you recieved in NY is better than some states? If that's the case ok, you can restate that sentence and move on.

I know why your course was lacking in clinicals; you have explained that. Do you think that makes it ok? Right? If you are going to stand by the above quote, doesn't that strike you as a contradiction, since your school did nothing to find somewhere else to place you? Since they allowed you to pass without those clinicals?

If you just want to ignore your previous statement about education that's fine. What is it about the care in New York that makes it so much better than other states?

How about the fact that in Massachusetts they just added selective back boarding? Wouldn't that to you suggest that NY who has had that since 2008, and now has actually basically given back boarding up to the providers discretion be an indication that they at least are above one state?

And I'm not fine with the fact that I wasn't allowed to enjoy the same clinicals I did in CC, but that is not the program or states fault as you seem to be implying. In fact it is the society of healthcare we live in where EMS gets the leftovers.

And you're right I chose to take the CC, but I was required to become a paramedic after. Does that make me less of a medic? Hell no, I personally am starting to think that you are nothing more than a troll looking to cause trouble and therefore I am asking politely for you to lay off. You have yet to do anything more than personally attack me and the EMS system I grew up in. While NYS sucks overall, there are things we don't suck at, and unless you are from here or personally know this system as well as I do, I suggest you back off of it.

 

[triemal04]

What I'm asking for you to do is, when you (or anyone for that matter) makes a statement like "In my city/county/region/state x, y, or z is better than in other places" (as you did here), that you be able to back it up by explaining WHY things are better. You know...so people can make their own decision on if you're right or not.

I would say that's the fair thing to do. Wouldn't you agree? Or do you just want to take this personally?

Great, NY got selective SMR before Massachusettes and many other states; that's certainly a mark in their favor. I don't know a huge amount about the two states; were individual departments already doing so on a case-by-case basis in either state, or was the statewide scope written in such a way that it was impossible?

What else do you have that puts NY ahead of Mass, and Mass "decades behind the rest of the country?"

 

[medic6676]

Until each state elected to follow through with their own protocols it was basically impossible. The downfall Massachusetts is currently facing is that in one county there is an MD who chose that his county will not be using it, keeping at least one region of the state in the past.

I specifically said that NY was not better than most, but at least a few. Sorry you don't seem to be understanding that statement, I swore I said it in a language you could understand.

 

[triemal04]

Paramedic programs in NYS typically adhere to the same national standards as paramedic programs everywhere else do. Apparently there was something about this specific program that resulted in reduced clinical availability.

Very likely; that wouldn't shock me at all. It is a bit surprising that the class was even allowed to happen though, and that the school didn't make alternate arrangements for the students. I find that very odd. Guess it would take someone from New York to explain their educational system and enlighten me...

 

[triemal04]

Until each state elected to follow through with their own protocols it was basically impossible. The downfall Massachusetts is currently facing is that in one county there is an MD who chose that his county will not be using it, keeping at least one region of the state in the past.

I specifically said that NY was not better than most, but at least a few. Sorry you don't seem to be understanding that statement, I swore I said it in a language you could understand.

So the rest of the state is using it, aside from one county? How about when the rest of the state started using it? Did it go on a case by case basis, or was it verbotten until a statewide edict came down, and then could be done at the discretion of the medical director? (this is purely for my own curiosity on this topic)

It really doesn't matter if you say "a few" "all" or "just Massachusettes," the problem is the same; if you don't actually back up your statement it becomes worthless.

So...what else do you have that puts NY ahead of Mass, and Mass "decades behind the rest of the country?"

Whelp...that signals the end of this conversation...

 

[medic6676]

First off to triemal, I read your recent reply and considered what you had to say. Here is my reply, I will apologize that I mis-spoke and should have said NYS is no less than any other state who is on board with the National Standards.

My course's experience with the hospital time issue was an incident that was localized to that program (as far as I know). The program itself is a great program and is growing itself into something new and different (hopefully). They just ran into some administration issues with the hospital.

I also want to apologize for my unprofessional comments, I was getting quite pissed that you were continually speaking ill of the system I have worked in for almost a decade. Instead of continually speaking bad about one state, please point out MY mistake in speaking earlier.

<moderator edit>

 

[triemal04]

You've now accused 2 people of being trolls, are taking everything said personally, and backstepping from your previous statements.

I don't think there is anything left to discuss here.

 

[Chimpie]

This thread has been cleaned up. Keep it polite and professional or it will be closed again.

 

[ERDoc]

Back to the OPs question, I think it depends on what your plans are and where in the state you are. The medic program where I was from was pretty intense and conpetitive (so I am told), so if you only planned to use it to volley, you were better off going the CC class.