BLS vs. ALS

Pudge40

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Well since we now have this policy of post whatever you want so long as the discussion is civil and no one hijacks the thread here goes. Do you feel that every ambulance should be ALS staffed?

I feel that it is better to have ALS but if BLS is around it is better than nothing.
 
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Why do we prefer to settle for first aid? Especially since medical care/ALS has been around for more than 40+ years?

R/r 911
 
Why do we prefer to settle for first aid? Especially since medical care/ALS has been around for more than 40+ years?

R/r 911

I guess because some areas don't have the means to support an ALS service.
 
I guess because some areas don't have the means to support an ALS service.

Yet, they still survive and able to offer other services. I guess then, communities should have to place signs and placards to visitors and those passing through to enter at your own risk. Community cannot reach modern medical practices but enjoy our park and lighted softball field.

R/r 911
 
Yet, they still survive and able to offer other services. I guess then, communities should have to place signs and placards to visitors and those passing through to enter at your own risk. Community cannot reach modern medical practices but enjoy our park and lighted softball field.

R/r 911

But still having BLS is still better than waiting 30-45 minutes for ALS. At least with BLS they can start basic care and then rendevouz with the ALS.
 
But still having BLS is still better than waiting 30-45 minutes for ALS. At least with BLS they can start basic care and then rendevouz with the ALS.

You get rid of the long wait if every ambulance was staffed by at least one ALS provider. I see nothing wrong with having at least one medic on every rig, and that's the way things should be run.

And to help that along, there should be enough ambulances so services can stop having to send BLS engine companies on medical calls.
 
This is a contensious issue from a number of standpoints.

Let me use an analogy; if you go to the emergency department do you expect to be seen by some sort of lesser nurse and have them call up for backup if you need it? If you go down to the store do you deserve to be seen by some sort of tiered system of employee to get what you want?

If you call the cops for some guy boosting your car the cops that roll up will arrest the guy, take him back to the station, maybe smack him around a bit and take him to court; it doesn't matter if they are detectives, dog handlers, beat cops or whatever a cop is a cop is a cop. Doesn't matter who you call they will show up and do the same thing (maybe not if you call the Ghostbusters).

The whole fragmentation in EMS of BLS vs ILS vs ALS vs EMT vs A-EMT vs Paramedic vs EMT-A,B,C,D,E,F, G etc etc is a problem. When you look at the related health disclipines a doctor is a doctor is a doctor it doesn't matter if he's an ER doc, a general practitioner, a OBGYN or whatever.

So I think ALS should be the prime standard. What really tears me apart is the vastly different scopes of practice and education.
 
I guess because some areas don't have the means to support an ALS service.

I'm calling BS. Florida has 100% ALS response. That means every ambulance that does 911 has at least one paraedic. There are some very rural and poor areas of Florida, yet we are still able to provide ALS AND we don't have state taxes to draw the funding for it from.

If the entire state, including rural and poor areas, can provide ALS response, it's proof that it CAN be done.
 
It is a myth that it costs tons more to staff at an ALS patient care level. Other than initial costs it really does not add that much to the costs. The biggest reason it is really fought is those at the basic level are not wanting to get the extra education so they claim the extra expense to keep communities from moving to it.

The only way you would ever save money would be in a large service where the small savings per ambulance would add up. Of course the savings vs the cost in lives, I don't want to live with that.
 
God, this is beyond beating the dead horse!

Why do people insist that 2 people who have completed a 120 hour first aid course can effectively deliver high quality pre-hospital emergency care? Especially when there is a known entity out there that can far exceed that level of care.

It can be done in most communities, you just have to prioritize resources and get a little creative. As I have now said 3 times in the last month, if the two poorest counties in the State of Texas can do it, yours can too probably. As my favorite little Floridian pointed out, every primary 911 ambulance in Florida is ALS. The proof is there!

Here is a little personal story that I like to tell people when they feed this BS.............

Back in 2000, I was working in a very poor rural county in east Texas that had a small part-time ALS service (1 truck, ALS staffed about 60% of the time) that wanted (and desperately needed) to expand. The notion was rejected by the county citing a lack of financial resources. Ironically enough, 3 of the county fire departments had a budget of $100K+ and were replacing apparatus on an alost yearly basis. Now, yes some of these trucks needed to be replaced as they were 20+ years old. However, suitable used replacements were sourced at an economical cost. The departments however pissed and whined about why they needed a new truck for their less than 100 runs per year volume (EMS meanwhile was running 500+ per year with surrounding counties having to pick up an additional 200). So the county allowed each of them to buy a $150k fire truck (when they could have gotten a reliable used one for under $75k). When it was all said and done, the final sticker was over $600K!

After organizing some data, providing recent statistics of mortality for various ailments, and basically justifying the need for better service, the idea was again considered. Then we effectively showed the excessive spending and under utilization of their new half million plus fire apparatus, plus the unneeded $20-40k spent by the departments for additional training never utilized nor needed.

That county received 24/7 ALS coverage with 3 units immediately after the next board meeting! The county was able to divert almost $200k per year from uneeded fire budgets over to a much needed EMS budget. Add to it effective billing, grants, and happy employees that ensure a low turnover, and they today have a well established ALS service.

Just one example, but one that can be commonly applied throughout the US. How much money does your fire service have? Does it truly need it? Maybe, maybe not...............
 
another ALS versus BLS thread? I love the variety here!
 
Just one example, but one that can be commonly applied throughout the US. How much money does your fire service have? Does it truly need it? Maybe, maybe not...............

Actually, a majority of central Florida EMS is through fire service, up north and down south they have various third service providers, county and private, but EMS based fire is spreading like wildfire.
 
Actually, a majority of central Florida EMS is through fire service, up north and down south they have various third service providers, county and private, but EMS based fire is spreading like wildfire.

but who will they call to put the wildfire? 5 FF/Medics are charging an IV to put dehydration.
 
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but who will they call to put the wildfire? 5 FF/Medics are charging an IV to put dehydration.

That's not the way it works here. Especially smaller departments, fire fighters are not forced to be medics to my knowledge in my area with the exception of OCFD. And there is a designated crew for the rescue and for the engine/tower/what have you. If dispatched and not needed, the engine/tower returns to the station.

There is a right way to do EMS based fire. And a wrong way.

I like this current wildfire, so hopefully no one, and it will spread to the rest of the country.
 
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I like this current wildfire, so hopefully no one, and it will spread to the rest of the country.

Now we need another threads dedicated to Fire based EMS versus third service.
 
I'm a believer of totally getting rid of EMT, and simply going to medic. Maybe EMT-B's can be wheelchair van drivers?
 
I'm a believer of totally getting rid of EMT, and simply going to medic. Maybe EMT-B's can be wheelchair van drivers?

They do qualify to do that... barely
 
Actually, a majority of central Florida EMS is through fire service, up north and down south they have various third service providers, county and private, but EMS based fire is spreading like wildfire.

Yeah, not so much around here. We really do not want these volunteer fire departments having anything to do with EMS. Besides, none of them have any ALS providers.
 
Rid your avavar fits you perfect, I could see you with the same personality as that character :lol:
 
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