Assault by patient

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wlamoreemtb

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Ok so tonight I was working on one of my squads and we had a call to transport pt from scene of an assault to hospital. on scene i was talking to pt when he got angry and threw a punch and missed and kicked me in the knee. i immediately defended with a judo takedown and took him as he was going to throw another punch. than i had to use a joint lock to hold him there until police came over and cuffed him. I was just wondering how many people have had this or something similar happen to them. This was my first time being assaulted by a pt and wondering if in anyones opinion i acted out of line or did anything wrong? I would also like to hear your stories about the subject
 
wlamoreemtb said:
Ok so tonight I was working on one of my squads and we had a call to transport pt from scene of an assault to hospital. on scene i was talking to pt when he got angry and threw a punch and missed and kicked me in the knee. i immediately defended with a judo takedown and took him as he was going to throw another punch. than i had to use a joint lock to hold him there until police came over and cuffed him. I was just wondering how many people have had this or something similar happen to them. This was my first time being assaulted by a pt and wondering if in anyones opinion i acted out of line or did anything wrong? I would also like to hear your stories about the subject
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never had a pt do that after an assault, but around here the police usually stay real close and are on them before they can really do anything
 
This is more common than everyone wants to admit.

Might I suggest you check out www.dt4ems.net
 
knxemt1983 said:
never had a pt do that after an assault, but around here the police usually stay real close and are on them before they can really do anything
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Please do NOT let the fact that LEO are ''close by'' get you complacient. My old partner had her finger broke by a pt, with PD less that 5 feet away. He was a simple fall pt, that went wrong.

BOTH of the pts that I have had taken into custody (key phrase there, more have tried) waited until we were in the back of the ambulance, on the way to the hosptial without LE, to assault me.

It is true, most of the time LE won't let anything happen to you. But it only takes a second and now your out of work. Sure, if LE is there, they won't allow it to go on....but in the mean time now you've got yourself injured.

This was my first time being assaulted by a pt and wondering if in anyones opinion i acted out of line or did anything wrong?
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Sounds like you did fine. Having had more than one pt assault me (had a homeless guy hit me one night, b/c he knew I would have him taken to jail and it was cold/rainy/ect), I am beginning to believe if they hit me and remain conscious afterwards....LUCKY THEM, I was in a good mood that night. :P

Also, do a search on this topic....I know DT4EMS has posted a BAZILLIGILLIMILLION great informative posts....I have posted a couple not so informative, but worthy of being reread (IMHO)....as well as others have told of stories.
 
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wlamoreemtb said:
Ok so tonight I was working on one of my squads and we had a call to transport pt from scene of an assault to hospital. on scene i was talking to pt when he got angry and threw a punch and missed and kicked me in the knee. i immediately defended with a judo takedown and took him as he was going to throw another punch. than i had to use a joint lock to hold him there until police came over and cuffed him. I was just wondering how many people have had this or something similar happen to them. This was my first time being assaulted by a pt and wondering if in anyones opinion i acted out of line or did anything wrong? I would also like to hear your stories about the subject
Click to expand...

Sounds like you did fine.
 
I've had a lady throw a punch, but she missed. She was already strapped in to the stretcher. She also attempted to spit on me. I promptly put on a non-rebreather on her & went about my business.

Sometimes I wonder why I do this (especially as a volunteer!) with some of the abuses we endure.
 
wlamoreemtb said:
Ok so tonight I was working on one of my squads and we had a call to transport pt from scene of an assault to hospital. on scene i was talking to pt when he got angry and threw a punch and missed and kicked me in the knee. i immediately defended with a judo takedown and took him as he was going to throw another punch. than i had to use a joint lock to hold him there until police came over and cuffed him. I was just wondering how many people have had this or something similar happen to them. This was my first time being assaulted by a pt and wondering if in anyones opinion i acted out of line or did anything wrong? I would also like to hear your stories about the subject
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I have two questions:

1) Did you pursue charges?

2) Did you document it well?


The reason for the questions is simple. First, in order to claim self-defense, you had to have had no other choice than to use force. (Does your agency have a policy to cover this or will you be fired one the bad-guy complains?)

The other reason for the police report is IF the dirtbag is found guilty of assaulting you, it would be very, very difficult for them to beat you in a civil case.
 
wlamoreemtb said:
Ok so tonight I was working on one of my squads and we had a call to transport pt from scene of an assault to hospital. on scene i was talking to pt when he got angry and threw a punch and missed and kicked me in the knee. i immediately defended with a judo takedown and took him as he was going to throw another punch. than i had to use a joint lock to hold him there until police came over and cuffed him. I was just wondering how many people have had this or something similar happen to them. This was my first time being assaulted by a pt and wondering if in anyones opinion i acted out of line or did anything wrong? I would also like to hear your stories about the subject
Click to expand...

Sounds like you handled that Beautifully. As the matter of fact, I'd like to learn that "judo takedown" technique myself.:P Or something...I'm planning on looking into some self defense classes Especially since I'm smaller than a lot of the population ^_^
 
Been there , done that , got the t - shirt ! It sounds like you did a good job . Make sure you document well and get statements from any witnesses that may have been there . How's your knee ?
 
the incident was documented with extreme detail and there were 2 other witnesses. i wont be pursuing charges...i already have meniscus problems in my knee
 
wlamoreemtb said:
the incident was documented with extreme detail and there were 2 other witnesses. i wont be pursuing charges...i already have meniscus problems in my knee
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By not pursuing charges, you are sending the message to this person that it is OK for them to assault EMS providers. You may want to reconsider that decision.
 
I agree with with FF, also this is also a good paper trail to start the documention process. This will help protect you down the road. Ex patients/ poor lack of judgement people <_< have a nasty habit of trying to stir up trouble when you least expect it.;)
 
i see maybe i shall reconsider
 
firecoins said:
If he didn't document it, could he claim it didn't happen?:wacko:
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I have spoken to "ex" EMS folks who have lost their job for using self-defense and having the attacker claim the EMS Provider assaulted them.

The documentation side is to help refresh the recolection of the provider should they be sued/accused etc.

Remember how long court cases take. It doesn't happen overnight :)

The second reason is letting others see how often it truly occurrs. More often than not, the provider doens't document it and it just becomes an anecdotal story.

Many other countries take assault on EMS serious. Their are initiatives in the works all over the UK to try and slow the alarming rate of assaults on their EMS.

Here it is swept under the rug because we (in EMS) allow it to be. Any EMS forum you go to there is a thread about this issue. How many stand up and say "this ain't right...."?

I do my part little by little. If a whole bunch of folks did a little............
 
ok so today i went down and filed assault charges on this pt .. use him as an example
 
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