Ambulance attendants accused of molesting patients

[Sasha]

DALLAS — They answer the call 24-7, often risking their own safety to rescue the sick and injured and rush them to the hospital. But some paramedics have been more predator than hero.

Over the past 18 months, at least 129 ambulance attendants across the U.S. have been accused of sex-related crimes on duty or off, an investigation by The Associated Press found. Some of them molested patients in the back of an ambulance.

Read more!

Accused again being the key word. EMTs/Medics are at a high risk of being falsely accused due to lack of education on what is and isn't acceptable on a physical exam. I'm not saying all the medics/EMTs were innocent, but I don't want to go boo'ing and shaming them.

And also, how many teachers, garbage men, lawn workers, store clerks, doctors, priests, nurses, and lawyers were accused of sex related crimes on or off duty over an 18 month period?

 

[VentMedic]

If it was an article about the number of complaints for inappropriate touching it would be well into the 1000s. 129 is not that many and these are serious crimes. I really do not want someone who sexually molests children even if it is off duty in the back of an ambulance regardless of what medical license they hold.

The minimal contact with patients an EMT or even Paramedic gets in their training may not appropriately prepare them for a physical exam on real people to where they must respect the patient differently than a manikin. Some are not taught how to appropriately apply ECGs electrodes on a patient in a non emergent situation. Some are not taught about respecting a patient's privacy in public areas as well as the back of a truck. Some do not know that you should tell a patient when and where you are going to place your hands. This is even a good idea for a patient that appears unconscious.

How many times have you yourself or watched others stick their stethoscope under the shirt of someone without explanation? Or, grab the the patient's pelvis to check stability without saying a word?

Patient communication is the one skill that EMT(P) schools seem to fail at teaching. This can also apply when it comes to talking with other medical professionals.

There is a certain etiquette for patient care and respect even within the walls of a hospital. Some EMT(P)s take offense when a curtain is quickly drawn around a patient. Many are clueless as to why this is done and get their tempers ruffled.

A male physician may ask another professional to be at bedside when they are examining the patient. A male (or female) EKG technician or nurse will take precautions of either having another person within earshot, carefully explaining and doing minimal exposure of the patient (male or female). Privacy and touching etiquette applies to both male and female (patient and provider) or whatever inbetween category they fall into.

There are emergency situations where some things can be overlooked however we all know statistically how many of your calls require that type of urgency. Those that truly are emergent will probably not be the ones complaining about your lack of manners or inappropriate touching.

It makes me wonder how many patients that have no voice are violated by predators in EMS. There are many people both young and old who have incapacitating diseases or birth defects that make them easy prey for those with these perverted tendencies. The predators may have just gotten too "hungry" to satisfy their own perversions and attacked someone who wasn't so helpless. Thus, they got caught.

We also shouldn't try to justify their actions by pointing fingers at other professions. Police your own work place. Other professions have also gotten their media time.

Just as I have posed the question in other threads of what you would do if your partner had a substance abuse problem or a domestic abuse problem, would you look the other way? Or, do you correct your partner if you see their assessment could be taken as groping by the patient, lay person or even another medical professional? Do you hear more than you share of inappropriate sexual jokes from a co-worker? Have you seen sex websites that could be kiddy porn on your work computer? There are alot more than 129 that haven't been caught yet or brought to trial.

 

[austinmedic77]

while I don't now nor will I ever condone this behavior, the implication seems to be that this is a rampant problem in EMS or an EMS only problem. I would be curious as to how many RN, RRT, x-ray techs, er techs or doctors are accused and or convisted of similars crimes. How many patients with no voice are violated by predators in the ER, Dr's office, daycare ect. It may be anticdotal but I would bet that the numbers of accusations compared to the number of practitioners would not be drastically different then those in EMS. These predators are evident in every walk of life and every profession. I have seen many hospital employees at all levels of training do many things that were inappropriate and/or criminal, and have reported these occurances to the hospital ethics staff, that being said I have witnessed and reported the same with EMS peers I think the key here is to realize that we can not prevent this behavior as these are sick people and are everywhere but that we need to be vigilant in reporting and preventing any preditorial behavior regardless of where it is seen and whom is the person involved.

 

[FFEMT1A]

This same thread is over on JEMSconnect. If you do the math, it works out to be ABOUT .00086 % of the TOTAL number of medics and EMT's working today. A really small percentage. I DO NOT condone the actions there people are accused of.. and the important word here is ACCUSED. Just making a comment

 

[VentMedic]

This same thread is over on JEMSconnect. If you do the math, it works out to be ABOUT .00086 % of the TOTAL number of medics and EMT's working today. A really small percentage. I DO NOT condone the actions there people are accused of.. and the important word here is ACCUSED. Just making a comment

This and many other arguments are used to keep states from establishing background checks or adequate reporting systems. The constant whining about "what does it matter?", "it only happens 0.0000086%?", "It'll involve filling out another piece of paper for applications" and some of the other many excuses found on these forums. Yet these same people will get on a forum to just rant on and on about an "accused" rapist or child molester they are "forced" to treat and proudly tell all what they would like to do to the person. But, the thought of someone you know or who wears the patch, you make all sorts of excuses for them. "People just don't understand us".


Thus, the EMS board in many states have not been able to weed out or even track offenders adequately because there will always be those that oppose it. Other professions do have a background checks for both education and licensing. They have an adequate system in place for reporting those with a license to the board and established policies for dealing with them.

Guess what? You are not the only medical providers that do assessments on patients. There are millions of healthcare providers out there. However, through learning a few lessons in patient etiquette and instilling confidence to the patient in the professional's abilities, not too many make the news.

These news articles are not meant to bash any profession but hopefully to insite a need to change the oversight of some licenses and education of the providers. Other professions again take note and come back with something that instills confidence in the public. EMS providers turn to the forums to whine about how everybody is picking on them. It is the same old story when it comes to eduation...alot of whining but little action.

Both RNs and RRTs (especially in CA) have taken serious hits in their professions from the news media but they are usually quick to make a change that gets them back in good standing a proving they can be professionals. Of course, they both have help from well established state and national associations.

California EMSA also had to learn the hard way and is still in a learning process.

 

[austinmedic77]

No one is saying that criminal background checks are a bad thing. My state dose a criminal check and if you have an infraction you must apply for consideration to have this overridden and yes some people do slip through the cracks just like they do in any other profession RN's have the same ability to apply for exception and some of them slip through the cracks as well. And most respectable employers also require some sort of criminal background check and those that dont should. I had to have a federal all inclusive background check with fingerprints the same one that RN's have to do so not all places are dropping the ball. And just cause other professions are not making the news does not mean that this behavior is not happening it just means there is not a current news article about it, and to think or imply that it is not happening in your or other professions because of your different liscensing procedures is very naive. The article that was posted even states that this is not a greater occurance in EMS then it is in other professions that the numbers are in line with any other sector of the professional world. Do some things needs to change, YES. Can some things be done better, YES. But this is the same of all professions and is not an isolated EMS problem it is a problem in the entire world and I'm all for any changes that will reduce the incidence of occurance but I'm also adult enough to admit that with sick people in this world there will always be some that slip through the cracks and prey on defensless people regardless of wht career they choose.

 

[VentMedic]

No one is saying that criminal background checks are a bad thing. My state dose a criminal check and if you have an infraction you must apply for consideration to have this overridden and yes some people do slip through the cracks just like they do in any other profession RN's have the same ability to apply for exception and some of them slip through the cracks as well. And most respectable employers also require some sort of criminal background check and those that dont should. I had to have a federal all inclusive background check with fingerprints the same one that RN's have to do so not all places are dropping the ball. And just cause other professions are not making the news does not mean that this behavior is not happening it just means there is not a current news article about it, and to think or imply that it is not happening in your or other professions because of your different liscensing procedures is very naive. The article that was posted even states that this is not a greater occurance in EMS then it is in other professions that the numbers are in line with any other sector of the professional world. Do some things needs to change, YES. Can some things be done better, YES. But this is the same of all professions and is not an isolated EMS problem it is a problem in the entire world and I'm all for any changes that will reduce the incidence of occurance but I'm also adult enough to admit that with sick people in this world there will always be some that slip through the cracks and prey on defensless people regardless of wht career they choose.

Did you even bother to read my post? I also suggest you read the article again.

And then, you want to blame the world for the flaws in the U.S. EMS system? Other countries have managed to do EMS a lot better than the U.S.

I never said the other professions did not have their share of problems. They are just more proactive in prevention and disciplinary action. Nearly half of the states require no background check for EMS at some levels. Do you know how many EMS providers are still working with serious convictions on their record because there are no background checks in their state?

Again, pointing fingers at the flaws of other professions is great only if you are doing something to improve your system by learning from their mistakes. Instead, it appears you are justifying the flaws in the EMS systems by saying "they do it too".

I could site many examples for all professions but there are two recent headline makers one of which is the CA nurses' immediate response to a news article about the flaws in their accountibility system. Another was the RT board's immediate action when an (ONE) RT was accused of several murders.

 

[mycrofft]

Sasha, roger your 7:17 Am post

I just read in the AARP newsletter an article from a former NY vice governor or something that every surface (direct quote) in hospitals is covered with C.difficele. Another article said every ambulance is crawling with drug resistant staph. So we have to trust every aticle at two-faced value, right?
Cut the indignation acts, think of all the false accusations and lawsuits, and look at this as a percentage of the profession. Not to be tolerated, but save your indignation for real causes.
Like how easy it wold be for an accusation to label you for the rest of your career?

 

[VentMedic]

I just read in the AARP newsletter an article from a former NY vice governor or something that every surface (direct quote) in hospitals is covered with C.difficele. Another article said every ambulance is crawling with drug resistant staph. So we have to trust every aticle at two-faced value, right?
Cut the indignation acts, think of all the false accusations and lawsuits, and look at this as a percentage of the profession. Not to be tolerated, but save your indignation for real causes.
Like how easy it wold be for an accusation to label you for the rest of your career?

Hospitals and ambulances do have something in common, they both have patients that have C. Diff and it is very easily spread especially if the ambulances do not (and most don't) have the proper solution for cleaning.

I happen to make working for EMS legislation my "cause". Unfortunately each time we get close to forming a decent piece of legislation, there are those in EMS that will cry "oh poor, poor us".

I also consider those that might fall prey to someone the system failed to screen. I think a child who has been raped by someone will also have to live with a label emotionally. If it could have been prevented by a piece of legislation for a simple background check then the system has failed that child.

 

[Sasha]

I didn't know there was anywhere that didn't background check their EMTs/Medics. I had to pay for a VECHs back ground check to even get in EMT school. Even so, that only works if they had done it before.

I wasn't pointing a finger at other professions, I was trying to put it in perspective. 129 people from EMS people, on or off duty, in 18 months, across 50 states. In 2007, in Florida alone there was 11,214 forcible sex crimes reported. (fdle.state.fl.us). There are going to be bad apples in every profession, it isn't acceptable, but be realistic, it's going to happen. Also remember a sex crime could be as little as a 19 year old boy having consensual sex with a 16 year old girl, a coworker making a dirty joke to another, highly sensitive coworker that reports them for sexual harrassment, or being caught urinating behind a tree. That news article was written for one thing, shock value. Please take things into consideration before you go and paint all field personnel with a corrupt brush.

 

[VentMedic]

That news article was written for one thing, shock value. Please take things into consideration before you go and paint all field personnel with a corrupt brush.

I never said everyone is corrupt.

And you don't understand the purpose of the article? Do you realize how hard some states have worked to get appropriate legislation passed only to have a road block thrown in by some who only think the purpose of increased measures to protect both the public and provider is interpreted as "picking on them"?

I think CA is the best example that it is now responding with increased measures to insure people with extensive criminal backgrounds are not in the back of an ambulance. The media helped with that and some their articles were from tips from EMT(P)s who were tired of covering for co-workers with known pasts and legislative issues that left them with few alternatives. Yet, even with facts published, many claimed the media was only "bashing" EMS. The media and professionals involved in EMS just wanted to make a change. Unless there was some sort of shock value, the issues would continue to be swept under the rug and a blind eye would be turned on any problem employees and their actions. Even when a violation, criminal or patient care, was noted it was rare action was taken.

You need to be more aware of your own state's issues to see just how many complaints they do handle a day and how the process does weed out the bogus ones to protect the provider while still maintaining a relative safe environment for the patient. Making your own broad statements with little understanding about various laws and legislation is naive at best.

I didn't know there was anywhere that didn't background check their EMTs/Medics. I had to pay for a VECHs back ground check to even get in EMT school. Even so, that only works if they had done it before.

Disagree. Again, you need to understand your state's reporting system. Criminal arrests can to be reported if you are a licensed professional. In Florida, Baker Acts can also be reported and yes, some professionals will have their license suspended or revoked for having a "bad day".

Also remember a sex crime could be as little as a 19 year old boy having consensual sex with a 16 year old girl, a coworker making a dirty joke to another, highly sensitive coworker that reports them for sexual harrassment, or being caught urinating behind a tree

Do you realize how many of these complaints don't make headlines or they are dismissed if there is a formal complaint with the Board? If companies and responsible employees demonstrated some professionalism, these complaints would not have a chance to originate. These situations still should not be in a professional work environment and those that do accept it or look the other way are doing very little to promote professionalism. We then get headlines to shock. But, instead of waking up EMS providers to what is going on in their own backyard and to make some changes or be more aware, it gives some in EMS opportunity to again whine they are so misunderstood and picked on.

Professionalism is everyone's responsibility. Understand your own state's regulations and how complaints are reported, investigated and disciplinary processes. And, remember before making you own blanket statements, realize there are 50 states with 50 different ways of doing things. CA also increases that number since they have the county way of doing things.

 

[BossyCow]

Anytime there is a job that is in a position of trust, it will attract a certain number of people who will want to be able to abuse that trust. The key is how does the profession react and what is done to minimize the chances of it happening again.

The term predator is applied to a set of individuals who are heavily invested in being able to manipulate, the system, their bosses/supervisors/co-workers, their victims, their neighbors. That's why whenever someone is accused of a crime like this, there are scores of people lining up to tell you what a 'good guy' this person is.

 

[Sasha]

I didn't know there was anywhere that didn't background check their EMTs/Medics. I had to pay for a VECHs back ground check to even get in EMT school. Even so, that only works if they had done it before.

Disagree. Again, you need to understand your state's reporting system. Criminal arrests can to be reported if you are a licensed professional. In Florida, Baker Acts can also be reported and yes, some professionals will have their license suspended or revoked for having a "bad day".

If someone had never previously comitted a crime, how does a background check work to weed them out?

 

[VentMedic]

That's why whenever someone is accused of a crime like this, there are scores of people lining up to tell you what a 'good guy' this person is.

When Dubin was arrested in Florida for his crimes, many rallied behind him just because they read his book. But as they say, you can't judge a book by its cover.

 

[VentMedic]

If someone had never previously comitted a crime, how does a background check work to weed them out?

Answer
Quote from previous post

You need to understand your state's reporting system. Criminal arrests can to be reported if you are a licensed professional. In Florida, Baker Acts can also be reported and yes, some professionals will have their license suspended or revoked for having a "bad day".

However, many states do not even have this process in place. Nor, do some have background checks for initial licensure.

Again, I will use the unfortunate CA as an example. If you committed a crime in one county to where they did pull your license, you just went to another county and applied for a certification. If you held certifications in many counties, you just tried to keep you nose clean in at least one of them. Up to earlier this year there was not a statewide reporting system in place since the responsibility was delegated to the counties. Some counties functioned better than others and some really sucked at policing serious offenses.

If all else failed, you just moved to a state that does not do background checks or does not have a statewide reporting system.

 

[Sasha]

Answer
Quote from previous post


However, many states do not even have this process in place. Nor, do some have background checks for initial licensure.

Again, I will use the unfortunate CA as an example. If you committed a crime in one county to where they did pull your license, you just went to another county and applied for a certification. If you held certifications in many counties, you just tried to keep you nose clean in at least one of them. Up to earlier this year there was not a statewide reporting system in place since the responsibility was delegated to the counties. Some counties functioned better than others and some really sucked at policing serious offenses.

If all else failed, you just moved to a state that does not do background checks or does not have a statewide reporting system.

You still haven't answered my question. You said it wasn't true that the background checks don't work if you haven't committed a criminal offense.

How does it work then, to weed them out of being hired, if a person has NEVER commited an infraction, criminal offense, had a need to be baker acted, before in their life at the time of being hired? Not everyone who commits a crime has a prior history.

 

[rchristi]

Background checks alone probably won't prevent someone with no prior offenses from getting into EMS. I have seen a suggestion of psychological screening in earlier post and that makes sense. The other thing that might help is periodic repeat background checks. Certain security clearances require a rescreening every 5 years. This would at least catch a few more.
If all of this sounds excessive, consider how much harder it would be to make a false accusation stick against a profession that rigorously screens and polices itself. Employers might even benefit from lower liability insurance costs.
I would think that tighter screening and enforcement would make EMS much less attractive to potential predators.

 

[VentMedic]

How does it work then, to weed them out of being hired, if a person has NEVER commited an infraction, criminal offense, had a need to be baker acted, before in their life at the time of being hired? Not everyone who commits a crime has a prior history.

I don't know how much clearer to make it.

IF YOU COMMIT A CRIME AFTER YOU GET YOUR LICENSE, THE AGENCIES AND ALL WHO KNOW HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO REPORT IT TO THE STATE. IF YOU HAVE A SERIOUS CONCERN ABOUT A CO-WORKER, YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO REPORT IT.

Quote from previous post

You need to understand your state's reporting system. Criminal arrests can to be reported if you are a licensed professional. In Florida, Baker Acts can also be reported and yes, some professionals will have their license suspended or revoked for having a "bad day".

 

[VentMedic]

If all of this sounds excessive, consider how much harder it would be to make a false accusation stick against a profession that rigorously screens and polices itself. Employers might even benefit from lower liability insurance costs.
I would think that tighter screening and enforcement would make EMS much less attractive to potential predators.

That's the right idea.

 

[Sasha]

No need to yell, dearie. Calm down

It still doesn't address how you are going to PREVENT EMT's and Medics from molesting patients if they have no prior history before the incident. Or are you just gonna tell their alleged victim "Sorry, I know you felt you were molested but hey! At least we have back ground checks so people with prior offenses don't get hired!"

I like the idea of psychological testing.