Advocacy

All right let me giva an example, of what Iam talking about. Say you have a STEMI pt. and your first in hospital is closer than the other hospital with a cath lab, I would take my pt. to the closedt, one I have an obligation to my community to get back in service right away, and two the pt. is going to recieve way more advanced care than i can give them as far as treatment and continuous Dx specific care, and third depending on the time of day with traffic and all they would benifit from all the specific medications involving the STEMI Dx than waisting time in the back of the ambulance fighting traffic. The er is going to get them to the cath lab anyways maybe by CCT transport or some other means, so thats my example. However where I work most places do have a cath lab so this is kinda of a far streched example, except for the traffic part sometime it's almost impossible just to get down the street in our first in.

What advanced care are they going to get at the hospital without interventional cardiology?? Heparin? Plavix? Blood tests? I can already tell you that the cardiac markers are elevated, you have a STEMI here! These things are not going to fix the problem. You can provide the primary interventions that are shown to improve outcomes, as well as performing "ACLS" if needed. The key is quick access to PCI.

We bypass "little" hospitals that are 3 minutes away all day long to drive through traffic for 20-30 minutes to get to a cardiac cath lab. Our system acknowledges that there is additional demand to the system and will move vehicles as needed to cover for us during these extended transports.

Would you take a trauma patient to a closer hospital that's not a trauma center so that they can bleed out while waiting for a helicopter or ground CCT unit?

Do you refuse to transport patients covered in blood so you can get back in service faster for a possible emergency in your community? Your responsibility first is to your patient, who is likely from your community and IS having an emergency right now.
 
All right let me giva an example, of what Iam talking about. Say you have a STEMI pt. and your first in hospital is closer than the other hospital with a cath lab, I would take my pt. to the closedt, one I have an obligation to my community to get back in service right away, and two the pt.
Yea... too bad the LA County LEMSA medical director (the one who writes your medical cook book) disagrees, and in terms of medical care (including transport destination), over rules anyone at the fire department...

All STEMI patients shall be transported to the most accessible open SRC if ground transport is 30 minutes or less regardless of service agreement rules and/or considerations.
http://ems.dhs.lacounty.gov/policies/Ref500/513.pdf
 
Yea... too bad the LA County LEMSA medical director (the one who writes your medical cook book) disagrees, and in terms of medical care (including transport destination), over rules anyone at the fire department...

Thank you, cookbook!
 
Everyone is a street corner lawyer.

Here's a quick yardstick in two parts:
1. Would you want this done to your granma?
2. IF you had to explain this to a reasonable and relatively dispassionate person and they started asking "why", what would you say? (Use an imaginary no-excuses questioner, such as you football coach, Judge Judy, etc).

I was rescued from such a situation once by the arrival of a community health nurse.
 
All right let me giva an example, of what Iam talking about. Say you have a STEMI pt. and your first in hospital is closer than the other hospital with a cath lab, I would take my pt. to the closedt, one I have an obligation to my community to get back in service right away, and two the pt. is going to recieve way more advanced care than i can give them as far as treatment and continuous Dx specific care, and third depending on the time of day with traffic and all they would benifit from all the specific medications involving the STEMI Dx than waisting time in the back of the ambulance fighting traffic. The er is going to get them to the cath lab anyways maybe by CCT transport or some other means, so thats my example. However where I work most places do have a cath lab so this is kinda of a far streched example, except for the traffic part sometime it's almost impossible just to get down the street in our first in.
You know, it's because of lazy-*** fire-medics like this that partially justify the existence of the shady money-grubbing IFT services that permeate LA County. Yes, I work for one of these shady cash-ravenous services and hate every second of it, but I bet these patients that all the LACoFD and LAFD medics like to dump at the geographically closest ED get better care from me than they do from our 911 heroes. Don't even get me started on Kaiser repatriations. I can't tell you how many times I've had to do the Kaiser-LA to Queen of Angels/Hollywood Presbyterian (or the reverse) transfer at 0300 because some genius FF/PM needed to get back to bed just that much faster**. I swear, working alongside LA fire-medics has almost single-handedly removed my desires to be a FF.

**Kaiser-LA is a whopping 0.2 miles away from QoA/HP...that's per Google Maps. In reality, you could stand in the parking lot at one, throw a rock and hit the ED doors for the other
 
Depends on what the facility is doing to take fall precautions. A matress on the floor doesn't need rails.

It also doesn't keep them from falling, either. ;)


All right let me giva an example, of what Iam talking about. Say you have a STEMI pt. and your first in hospital is closer than the other hospital with a cath lab, I would take my pt. to the closedt, one I have an obligation to my community to get back in service right away, and two the pt. is going to recieve way more advanced care than i can give them as far as treatment and continuous Dx specific care, and third depending on the time of day with traffic and all they would benifit from all the specific medications involving the STEMI Dx than waisting time in the back of the ambulance fighting traffic. The er is going to get them to the cath lab anyways maybe by CCT transport or some other means, so thats my example. However where I work most places do have a cath lab so this is kinda of a far streched example, except for the traffic part sometime it's almost impossible just to get down the street in our first in.

The Cath lab is designed to handle that exact circumstance. The local Bandaid General isn't. I don't know what your drugs/protocols look like, and I'm sure I'll catch flak for this, but... There isn't much that ER is going to do that you can't do with the drugs provided and your ACLS protocols.

Why not contact Med Control? "Hey Doc, I got a STEMI, do I bring them to you and bypass Bandaid General? Yes? Okay, thanks." And then you're covered. Oh, and you're 30 minutes out? No problem. Because now that the Doc knows you're coming, he'll contact the Cath team, who probably take 20-30 minutes to get in to the facility. So now your Door-to-Cath time will probably be at a bare minimum. Time is heart muscle, and by calling ahead and going to the correct facility, you probably just saved this guy a LOT of trouble.

But no.. You -NEED- to go back in service! Oh my! The city will FALL APART if you drive an extra few miles to the proper facility! So instead, take them to Bandaid General, who will be forced (thank you, EMTALA) to do an assessment. So they'll do an ECG, a nursing assessment, a physicians assessment... In order to not look lazy, they'll have to do a rush on bloods and look at the results. Then probably hang a few bags and meds, just to feel like they can do SOMETHING. Then they have to call a CCT rig, that will take time to get there. And then call a report to the other facility. And maybe in a couple hours, the guy will finally arrive at the correct facility to get his Cath, which has meant much more heart muscle damage, and he forever gets winded going up the 5 steps to his front door. But hey, I'm sure he understands, right? You had to get back in service.
 
All right let me giva an example, of what Iam talking about. Say you have a STEMI pt. and your first in hospital is closer than the other hospital with a cath lab, I would take my pt. to the closedt, one I have an obligation to my community to get back in service right away,

Let me get this right... you have an obligation to rapidly get to your community even if it means sacrificing the care they receive? How does that make sense?





Sasha... I did just this thing the other week. The nursing home wanted me to take a possible head bleed to the hospital just up the street. I said hell no, called dispatch letting them know we were going to the local stroke center, and off they went.


If someone gets angry about me taking my patient to the correct facility, they can do 2 things: Bite me, and get in the rig and put THEIR certification on the line if they so wish. Until someone else takes responsibility for my patient, it's still my patch, my decisions.
 
It also doesn't keep them from falling, either. ;).



Keeps them from hurting themselves falling out of bed, Falling while walking/standing is another issue. Short of restraining or constant supervision, There is not much to be done about that.
 
Back
Top