abandonment or not

EMT2001

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I have a question there was an EMS call in our town and an EMT was reporting to call from home and was in an accident herself. Our service pages for another EMT to respond based on having our EMT in an accident. The EMT that responded to the extra EMT needed went straight to the scene of the page. During that time the EMT at the station decided to respond to the accident of our fellow EMT not the original page ( that was also an accident). Now the EMT that went by her self in her car to the original page was called by or chief and told to leave that scene and come to the accident of the fellow EMT.
In saying that. Our ems services a small neighboring community that has first responders that respond to all pages only and they pay for us to be there EMS serice and this is were the original call was. The EMT that responded on there own left the original scene to go to the other accident. Leving the pt with first responders but no EMT's. they had to wait for a ambulance form another community to show up.

I feel this is abandonment what are your thoughts???
 

mycrofft

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I don't like to take sides like that, especially in a small town. I might need to change a tire or buy lunch there someday.

If authority deems one incident more serious than another, and resources can only respond to one, then the worst one gets service first.
 

Medic Tim

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it would depend on your state law and department policy. As a general rule once an EMT makes pt contact they are there till a refusal is signed, they are released by ALS or another EMT or they turn over care at a hospital.

sounds like policies were not followed or some need to be written about how to respond. some states require 2 in the truck for it to even roll.
 
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EMT2001

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yes I agree. We have to have 2 EMT's to roll that is already in place. I have looked up state law but it is also unclear. Thanks all for your thoughts!!:)
 

mycrofft

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Once care is assumed, to leave when there is still need and the patient does not give informed refusal of care is abandonment, per me. If care has not yet been assumed (responder has not yet gotten on scene or met the patient), no care is assumed, although watching that fire truck slow down then speed away could be a not-good thing.
 

medicdan

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The question is... does care or duty to act begin upon dispatch or patient contact? Did the dispatcher or Chief use defined call triage protocols to determine which call should get the response it got? What was the geography of the dispatches? Differences in response time?

Was the first EMT dispatched driving L&S in his personal vehicle? Is that permitted in department policies?
 
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EMT2001

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The EMT that responded to the inital page was not L&S but responded as member of our service to provide care. The chief made a bad decision the other ambulance was not paged yet, it took them 31 min to respond to the scene of the original page.
If they would have just had another service dispatch to the new ( our fellow EMT) the response would have been a lot quicker. I think the service failed to provide to our community.
again you have all made great points!! Thanks
 

mycrofft

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There we have it. "Chief made a bad call". You have made your decision.

If you respond, unless called off, you have a duty to get there, find the pt, then work it from there. Until you contact the patient, you are acting under a duty to respond and presumably look for them, not a duty to provide care.

Maybe it was a bad call, maybe it wasn't, but mistakes happen more often than malfeasance..
 
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EMT2001

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thank you.....but it is not my call!!! I wish it was. I guess we will see what legal action can come of all this by others
 

medicdan

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So is the moral of this story to have solid written policies and procedures to cover contingencies like this?
 

Veneficus

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So is the moral of this story to have solid written policies and procedures to cover contingencies like this?
like don't respond from home?
 

DonnyD

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Do I correctly count three EMTs? The first responds from home and is involved himself in an accident; the second also responds from home to the original call, but is later recalled to the first EMT's accident; and the third responds to the EMT's accident from the station. There were apparently EMRs at the scene of the first accident. What I am wondering is if there were additional EMRs at the scene of the second accident who could assist the EMT there and, if so, was it necessary to recall the second EMT. The bottom line: the nature of the injuries must dictate the allocation of resources. But it does sound like the second EMT was compelled to abandon the PT at the first scene.

In a small town, it is often necessary to respond to a call from home, especially for volunteers.

Joe
 

mycrofft

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Responding from home: EMTLIFE's denizens often lose sight or are ignorant of rural and frontier issues and practices.
 

Medic Tim

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the OP has stated that the EMT broke policy by not responding with 2 in the ambulance.
 

savelives

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For EMT-B's, I'm pretty sure care can only be transfered parallel (to another EMT), or higher up the chain (i.e. medics nurses docs pa's). I know that with my company, transferring care to an EMR would be a breach of protocol. However responding to an emergency involving a fellow EMT without first making pt contact would be OK. Its generally advised to go where you're paged so that the allocation of resources don't get messed up (NIMS).

Thats my take on it at least, good question!
 

Veneficus

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Responding from home: EMTLIFE's denizens often lose sight or are ignorant of rural and frontier issues and practices.
Perhaps I was not clear...

Responding from home to the scene invites problems.

There is safety in numbers, responding together from a station in a marked vehicle is really a better idea.

SAR teams as a matter of point, do not respond individually and start working a scene.
 
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mycrofft

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Agreed, but some areas are so large versus location of the station that having even one person on scene in twenty minutes or less acting as a first responder offsets waiting an hour for any responder. (Also, weather such as an ice storm or flood).

I hate any scenario where anyone "meets up" with someone else, whether it is a vehicle to vehicle patient switch, or picking up responders. Too many moving parts. Station response is optimal, from home much less so but sometimes better than the wait.
 

Veneficus

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Agreed, but some areas are so large versus location of the station that having even one person on scene in twenty minutes or less acting as a first responder offsets waiting an hour for any responder. (Also, weather such as an ice storm or flood).

I hate any scenario where anyone "meets up" with someone else, whether it is a vehicle to vehicle patient switch, or picking up responders. Too many moving parts. Station response is optimal, from home much less so but sometimes better than the wait.

You know I intend no offense, but just my opinion,

If you are waiting so long for an EMT, especially prior to transport, you better not be sick.
 

bstone

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yes I agree. We have to have 2 EMT's to roll that is already in place. I have looked up state law but it is also unclear. Thanks all for your thoughts!!:)
EMTs=Plural of EMT
EMT's="EMT is" or denoting possession by the EMT

/petpeeve
 

Strap

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EMTs=Plural of EMT
EMT's="EMT is" or denoting possession by the EMT

/petpeeve
Using an apostrophe in this case isn't necessarily wrong, although it's less common these days. Many style guides say to drop the apostrophe (EMTs), but not all.
 

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