A different view of EMS " (Another) reason why EMS isn’t taken seriously"

irishboxer384

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I don't think education in EMS is any different from that of the police, fire department or military.
Do you think people from these agencies are anymore professional or better educated than the average paramedic in their specific professions? Do you think their academies truly cover them for all of the situations they will face? I think not, nor do I think the same is true in EMS.

In every occupation there are well educated fools, or under-educated experts. Some of the best medics I have worked with don't have a degree but a wealth of experience, some of the best soldiers I have worked with were alcoholic criminals who could still run <5 minute miles.

The big difference is that the police, fire dept and military are hailed as superheroes whilst EMS doesn't receive the same benefits, kudos or attention- that doesn't make EMS a lesser profession...merely that it doesn't receive the same gratitude from the government or public.

My humble opinion, with all of its worth on the internet forum (worth less than nothing :)
 

cprted

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Except that we work in health care, police officers and firefighters don't, so the comparison isn't really valid. When you compare the length and depth of the average EMT-P program to that of an RN or an RT, you see where we stack up ...
 

irishboxer384

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Except that we work in health care, police officers and firefighters don't, so the comparison isn't really valid. When you compare the length and depth of the average EMT-P program to that of an RN or an RT, you see where we stack up ...
I think the comparison is valid when fire fighters, police and military don't complain about not being respected in what is basically an entry level job. The length of course for the services is somewhat similar to gain employment...comparing a nurse to a paramedic: you can then compare a nurse to a doctor too? Do nurses complain they aren't treated with respect in the same way as paramedics do?

A paramedic is a similar level in education and training as the other services...
 

gonefishing

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Except that we work in health care, police officers and firefighters don't, so the comparison isn't really valid. When you compare the length and depth of the average EMT-P program to that of an RN or an RT, you see where we stack up ...
They simply have a larger education because they do long term care. I see my patients for a mere 15 minutes 30 minutes max and thats it. Nurses care for patients for hours, days, weeks and months. Several nurses simply can not do street medicine. My wifes a nurse and she has little to no understanding of what we do and how we do. Throw a nurse into an ems position give them little tools and see how they fair. Some ducks can't swim on rough waters. The thing that is missing is the information and education to the public and other healthcare professionals on what we are capable of doing and what little we have to make due with.
 

cprted

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Throw a nurse into an ems position give them little tools and see how they fair. Some ducks can't swim on rough waters.
You can't criticize a Nurse for not being a competent Paramedic given they have no training as such. Kind of like criticizing a fish for not being able to climb a tree.

They simply have a larger education because they do long term care. I see my patients for a mere 15 minutes 30 minutes max and thats it.
This is my point. If you want to be taken seriously you should be pushing for more education and knowledge. Deeper understanding of the patho, etc. The 'I don't need to know that cause either way I'm going to take them to the hospital,' mantra is one of things things holding back EMS from being respected as a health care profession.

The thing that is missing is the information and education to the public and other healthcare professionals on what we are capable of doing and what little we have to make due with.
I agree to a point. But in terms of being respected by other health care groups, more training and education is part of that. If Paramedic was a three or four year degree, like it is in a lot of other places world wide, that would make huge inroads to being respected. Other than a few pockets of rural Canada, I can't think of any other first world country where someone with the training of an EMT-B is allowed to work on an emergency response ambulance.

This is what the original blog is getting at.
 

gonefishing

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You can't criticize a Nurse for not being a competent Paramedic given they have no training as such. Kind of like criticizing a fish for not being able to climb a tree.

This is my point. If you want to be taken seriously you should be pushing for more education and knowledge. Deeper understanding of the patho, etc. The 'I don't need to know that cause either way I'm going to take them to the hospital,' mantra is one of things things holding back EMS from being respected as a health care profession.

I agree to a point. But in terms of being respected by other health care groups, more training and education is part of that. If Paramedic was a three or four year degree, like it is in a lot of other places world wide, that would make huge inroads to being respected. Other than a few pockets of rural Canada, I can't think of any other first world country where someone with the training of an EMT-B is allowed to work on an emergency response ambulance.

This is what the original blog is getting at.
Yes BUT with larger education comes higher pay which means higher cost on company's which in return means higher charges to patients. It's all an uphill battle. I'm all for higher education as long as the resources such as that afforded to nurses is available to ems.
 

irishboxer384

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If Paramedic was a three or four year degree, like it is in a lot of other places world wide, that would make huge inroads to being respected. Other than a few pockets of rural Canada, I can't think of any other first world country where someone with the training of an EMT-B is allowed to work on an emergency response ambulance.

This is what the original blog is getting at.
In the UK people having done a 5 DAY course get paid more than an EMT-B in the US. Also in the UK paramedics get the financial reward for having done a 2 year/3 year degree. Starting pay is about 40k a year as a new grad for the NHS, and free healthcare/education/dentistry up until age of 16. Private ambulances you can make $400 a shift for some companies. Noone here is going to argue for LESS education, but until the nation pays paramedics the money they deserve then it would be unfair to demand a BSc for a $15 an hour job. Firefighters are on excellent routines and pay as are the police, the military have the GI bill and the other benefits....what is America going to offer non-fire medics to make them seek further education and prevent them moving into careers such as nursing/fire etc? 'pay peanuts get monkeys'...
 

TimRaven

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I would love to do degree based EMS system, but only if my salary is high enough to pay off my student loan.
 

Summit

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The money will follow the education if it is the practitioners pushing the progression.

Education only follows money if there is a shortage followed by a glut.
 

Anonymous

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To the point of the article and what I have found all too often is medical professionals bringing their personal opinions and bias into their professional advice. People who are vegetarians, "gluten free," supplement users, and the list goes on. Their opinions rarely change after going through their respective education. They are now in a place to educate the masses and sometimes they do so in an irresponsible manner by pushing their personal beliefs/agendas. However, this is not unique to EMS.
 

Nightmare

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one of my partners, who has been working EMS longer than i have been alive gave me a very interesting point to think on awhile back, part of the reason that EMTs/paramedics aren't respected is because we aren't viewed as the "make you better people" we are viewed as the people who keep you alive until you get to the "make you better people" so when people see us, they don't want to see us, they want to see the people after us. changing that mentality is going to be a very difficult task, but one thing it can start with is the phrase "we are going to do our very best to make you better" because we are part of that medical chain that provides care, that care is supposed to be in the direction of improved health.
 

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