2013 4 Year Paramedic Degree
- Thread starter Trainer12
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No, not even the 2 year degree will be required.
There are also only about 12 colleges in the US which offer a 4 year degree in Paramedicine. There are between 10 and 50 Paramedic certification programs in each state.
There will be 4 levels by the NREMT starting at the beginning of 2014.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/ems/EMSScope.pdf
Accreditation by CoAEMSP requirement for Paramedic programs will start at the beginning of 2013.
http://www.coaemsp.org/
http://www.nremt.org/nremt/downloads/Newsletter_2009.pdf
College A&P 1 and 2 would be help but probably still not required by many EMT or Paramedic programs. There are accredited Paramedic programs which offer a one week crash overview course in A&P for Paramedic students and are still fully accredited.
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A little correction. This requirement will only be for the states using the NREMT for their Paramedic exam.
nwhitney
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Some states such as Oregon require a 2 year degree to work as a medic. There are some ways around that though.
Yes take A&P!
Yes take A&P!
Only two states require the two year degree and yes there are loopholes around that.
terrible one
Always wandering
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I wish they'd atleast require a 2 year degree.
SeanEddy
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I agree that a degree program would be nice. The only problem is, the pay has the match the education requirements.
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You can not pay people "hoping" they'll use the money to get a degree. If the pay was good, then why bother with a degree.
An Associates degree is not even considered "professional" by many professions which is why RNs are now looking seriously at making the BSN their entry. Do you think RNs would still be able to command their wages if they has stayed at a diploma level? What about PTs if they still only required a Bachelors (4 year degree) or SLP or OT? Do you think CMS would be taking them seriously at a professional level for their reimbursement?
How about some of the nonmedical professions? A two year degree majoring in accounting gets you the title of BookKeeper. A 4 year degree in law studies makes you a Legal Assistant. Even mechanics now have at least two year degrees or the equivalent or they are oil changers if they are lucky enough to get a job.
What other profession allows you to do some much and require so little education? It is appalling that some states like Texas allows an open scope of practice with bragging rights to over 60 meds (if Linuss is not exaggerating), some of which have potential for dire consequences in the hands of the under educated. Even a lack of understanding of something like fentanyl must be given correctly with an understanding of the side effects. Yet, you can be a Paramedic in TX in as little as 634 hours or a little over 3 months of training with no prerequisites required. When some RSI mishaps (deadly) from TX made the EMS headlines, it was mentioned that it takes more hours to become a hairdresser than a Paramedic. But, more arguments exist from the providers in EMS against education than for it so even with the incidents where more education could have prevented the death of the patient at the hands of the provider, the inconveniencing of the providers with all that education stuff will be considered first.
The problem is that a two year Degree is not a two year Paramedic degree, it requires a third to half of classes in "general education" or "liberal arts" which are nice, but have no actual bearing on being a Paramedic.
The two year associate nursing degrees offer little about 1,000 hours of education from what Brown has also seen, and again require a lot of "general" education which is more specific but still not devoted entirely to nursing
Our Bachelors Degrees contain totally what the US call "upper division" or "concentration/major" with no "general" education required.
Oh, and that 12 week Paramedic factory in Indiana is approved by the bloody CoAEMSP, so whats the point?
The two year associate nursing degrees offer little about 1,000 hours of education from what Brown has also seen, and again require a lot of "general" education which is more specific but still not devoted entirely to nursing
Our Bachelors Degrees contain totally what the US call "upper division" or "concentration/major" with no "general" education required.
Oh, and that 12 week Paramedic factory in Indiana is approved by the bloody CoAEMSP, so whats the point?
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Actually 70 hours with 40 being core Paramedic and at least 2 A&P classes each with lab, a good pharm class and just one each of the 3 Rs take up most of the 70 hours leaving little to no time for psychology or sociology which should also be part of that program. I do NOT believe you should cut the basic math and English classes from the degree. Too many use this "liberal arts" argument with suggestion of Old World Literature without knowing what liberal arts consists of and the many options a student has to choose from.
RNs have over 1000 hours of clinicals in their degree program along with all the classes. Their 2 year degree is actually more like 3 to 3.5 since most of the prequisites are required to be done before application can be made to the program. This is why it makes more sense to just do the BSN with a bigger degree for not much more time.
Most of the Bachelors degrees will have the sciences in the lower division as a prep for the professional concentration in the upper division. Again, I believe there should be some prerequisites such as A&P rather than just a concentration of memorizing protocols and gaining skills without knowing the whys.
CoAEMSP does not set the education requirements for entry but rather monitors certain aspects. If 600 hours is still the entry number of hours for the Paramedic, CoAEMSP may see the program is meeting that. Right now EMS as a whole has low standards for education and the educators.
Just like any other profession accredited by CAAHEP, as requirements in that profession increased, the monitoring agencies adjusted to changes.
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tacitblue
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I wouldn't give up my "liberal arts general education" for anything. I use my training in anthropology, english, and philosophy almost daily on the job as a medic. I live in a diverse state (California) where cultures collide, and I find myself understanding people and explaining things to my partners that they dimiss as stupidity. I feel that I can think critically and where needed, scientifically about healthcare, patient care, and ethics. Every class I have ever taken in college has complemented my paramedic training in weird ways that I would have never thought possible.
In America, there is also the Jeffersonian tradition in higher education. A good democracy requires an educated citizenry to function. This is something I hold to be true.
8jimi8
CFRN
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hmm what's your level of training? How many hours of education do you have?
Why don't you demand that of everybody? I see many on here who don't post their credentials? Is it because my posts intimidate you and linuss?
Why don't you suggest a closed forum to where you must provide a valid license to post? That would solve your worries. Don't expect names, addresses and phone numbers to be openly published on this type of forum.
So, close the forum to any and all who don't want to reveal their education, name and whatever personal information.
But, it is because of people such as yourself who would probably use whatever someone posts you don't agree with to go to their employer for your own agenda...anonymously of course.
Now, what exactly don't you agree with in my post? Are you against education? I bet you think the BSN is too much and the ADN is more than adequate for the RN.
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I would like to know your educational level and background because you choose to come here and run down EMS. As we recently found out, it's not hard to fake things on the web.
I'll be upfront. I am a paramedic, I completed a college-based curriculum at Northern Virginia Community College in 2003. I did not get a degree because I was young and stupid, life has gotten in the way of rectifying that although I hope to fix that starting this fall. I completed the UMBC CCEMT-P at Boiser Parish Community College in 2008. I've worked for two municipal FDs as a medic, tech'd in two tertiary facility EDs, flew for about a year for a community-based service and currently work for a private in a rural 911 system (the second one I've worked for) where I am an FTO. Prior to all this I was a volunteer EMT-Basic for a couple of years. I don't openly post my employer (against policy) but it's not hard to figure out who it is. I've recruited people. If anyone wants to verify who I am I can point you in the right direction.
Cheap shots at EMS from someone who comes to the forum with a gigantic chip on their shoulder are the issue with what you say, not really the content. If closed forums are so much better, why not stay in there? Why come back here?
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You could have copied that from anywhere or anyone.
Why don't you just post your name so we can verify your license and your address?
Why do you think I am running down EMS? What part of my post do you have a problem with? Are you trying to say EMS in the US requires a Bachelors degree? Are you saying the EMT has more than adequate hours of training? What part of my post do you disagree with? Do you agree with the 3 month programs to be a Paramedic? Those are the things I take issue with and would like to see impoved. Too freakin' bad if you are anti education but too chicken crap to come out with a decent argument. You would rather make personal attacks than take a stance.
Again, just post your name (or the one you are using) so all of us can verify your identity, where you live and work. What's with the guessing game if you say where you work is already known. Maybe we can call your wife if you really have one to verify the information.
Your personal attacks and stance against those who are pro education must do your employer proud. I definitely would like to know where you work.
I do primarily stay in closed forums where we do know each others identity. But you state that as if it is a bad thing. Maybe you really don't have a certification or a license of any type.
If you notice, I rarely post here unlike some like yourself who feel they must hijack every thread to run off anyone who disagrees that EMS is fine just the way it is and don't need no educatin' crap preached around here.
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Just like you could spout whatever you want...
Considering just a minute ago you posted how to use a license number to jam up a forum member with their employer, I think not. Why don't you go first?
In actuality, I agree with everything there. It's the "if so and so isn't lying" and "paramedics as a whole are too idiotic to be trusted" and "easily influenced by one poorly written article" ect. It's not the content, it's the moral high horse tone I take issue with.
Not a chance. You go on ahead and do the same, I'll consider it. I doubt you'll even go as far as I did though.
As would yours if they saw the seemingly bipolar rants posted at various times. Personal attacks? You dragged another forum member in who hadn't even posted to this thread to delve into a rant on education (which again, I agree with the content of) for lord only knows what reason. Ask the members here how anti-education I am. See how many times I've recommended A&P, chem, bio, english, ect.
Maybe you don't. Maybe we all took the blue pill instead of the red one.
You have never read my other post if you truly believe that. You are a disruptive force all around the web and can't contribute without attacking members or the EMS establishment (which needs to change, but taking cheap shots at it doesn't accomplish that). As such, yeah, I challenge you. One day, when you stop dwelling on how EMS has failed you perhaps you will be able to help change the way out-of-hospital care is delivered in this country. Until then you will be marginalized as someone who injects far too much emotion into an argument and can't help but go nuclear when someone disagrees with their fantasy land moral system.
You can be an asset, or you can be ignored. It's your choice. If you lose the attitude and are able to engage in respectful discourse, then you seem to have a lot to offer and you'll find most of us actually agree with you on ALOT of issues. If you cant leave the personal baggage at the door then you just come off as someone bitter at EMS who needs to let go and get a life.
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Knock if off!
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What part of "Knock it off!" are you having a problem understanding?
I was typing while you posted that. Forgive me for not using a split screen so I could see your post as it appeared.