On being a Jerk

[MMiz]

I smile every time I see a member with a House/Hugh Laurie or John McGinley/Perry Cox custom avatar. Both characters make awesome TV because they're absolute jerks and that have huge character flaws that make them almost unbearable.

Being a jerk doesn't work in real life, and especially not on this forum. New members don't stick around another two months or dozen episodes to find your single redeeming quality. Belittling is not educating, and insulting isn't an acceptable form of communication. No one likes a condescending know-it-all.

It's tough to stay above it all, I agree. It's fascinating to see new members so desperate to fit in join more senior members in the abuse. You're not fighting a good fight, and EMTLife will not be your soapbox.

If you get off being the forum tough guy/gal, that's great, but you won't do it in our forum.

Lastly, all members should recognize that not every thread needs you! More than half the time I write a post I read back over it to realize that it's not contributing to the discussion. If that's the case, if I have nothing constructive to say, I don't post. I'd ask you to do the same.

Happy Holidays!

 

[mycrofft]

Got it.

...........

 

[usalsfyre]

We (esp the CLs) walk a fine line. Let's face it, it's in the commercial interest of the forum to have as many members as possible. This is simple economics.

The flip side? It does not serve our interest as profession to promote mediocrity. The cruel fact is we train a lot of folks who are wholly unsuited to this field. Passing NR on the 5th try after 118 questions in not exactly confidence inspiring. Unfortunately, these are also often the people for whom "gentle suggestion" is a lost art. The best bet at times is being blunt to the point of rudeness.

Final thoughts? I myself could probably stand to be more polite at times. But calling out crappy care and unprofessional behavior is all of our responsibility as stewards of the career. You won't find MD's remaining silent on poor, antiquated care, why do we?

 

[GotTheChair]

if I have nothing constructive to say, I don't post.

Then why did you start this thread?

I'd ask you to do the same.

Translation: I don't like having people around here who are honest and if I didn't have the power to ban folks who might make me look less than supremely competent, which is the other reason I probably don't post much, I wouldn't stick around either.

You won't find MD's remaining silent on poor, antiquated care, why do we?

Because physicians have their balls fully descended enough that they don't concern themselves with being 'nice.'

 

[abckidsmom]

We (esp the CLs) walk a fine line. Let's face it, it's in the commercial interest of the forum to have as many members as possible. This is simple economics.

The flip side? It does not serve our interest as profession to promote mediocrity. The cruel fact is we train a lot of folks who are wholly unsuited to this field. Passing NR on the 5th try after 118 questions in not exactly confidence inspiring. Unfortunately, these are also often the people for whom "gentle suggestion" is a lost art. The best bet at times is being blunt to the point of rudeness.

Final thoughts? I myself could probably stand to be more polite at times. But calling out crappy care and unprofessional behavior is all of our responsibility as stewards of the career. You won't find MD's remaining silent on poor, antiquated care, why do we?

Amen.

There is a nice way to call people on their stuff, and then sometimes, people are just not getting it, and need a bit of a push to look closely in at themselves. Sometimes that push looks rude, and sometimes they neither see it coming nor welcome it.

It doesn't make the push any less necessary.

If we are going to be working together on the #1 Forum for EMS Online Discussion, we need to expect to be stretched sometimes. I certainly am.

 

[Sasha]

We (esp the CLs) walk a fine line. Let's face it, it's in the commercial interest of the forum to have as many members as possible. This is simple economics.

The flip side? It does not serve our interest as profession to promote mediocrity. The cruel fact is we train a lot of folks who are wholly unsuited to this field. Passing NR on the 5th try after 118 questions in not exactly confidence inspiring. Unfortunately, these are also often the people for whom "gentle suggestion" is a lost art. The best bet at times is being blunt to the point of rudeness.

Final thoughts? I myself could probably stand to be more polite at times. But calling out crappy care and unprofessional behavior is all of our responsibility as stewards of the career. You won't find MD's remaining silent on poor, antiquated care, why do we?

No one is asking anyone to remain silent. He is asking not to be a jerkface. There is a difference. You can be firm without calling people idiots.

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[enjoynz]

Well said Mmiz!
There are those members on this forum that do appreciate you and the other CL's efforts in keeping this forum alive and without a whole lot of advertising, etc,etc that others do.
You have by no means ever been a Jerk (Quite the reverse) in all the years that I've known you while on this site.
Some people need to have some manners and learn to repected other folk....plain and simple!!!....It's a shame manners is a dying art form.-_-

 

[GotTheChair]

No one is asking anyone to remain silent. He is asking not to be a jerkface. There is a difference. You can be firm without calling people idiots.

Being polite and not being a jerk are not the same thing....

 

[triemal04]

Wow...the more things change, the more they stay the same. I do believe this situation has come up more than once in the last couple of years, and eventually, despite all the hissing, whining, arm waving and shouting...everybody calms down, things go back to how they were and nothing changes. In other words...people, quit acting like a bunch of school kids, and look at the situation objectively. Supposdly we are representatives (like it or not, if a layperson stumbled onto this site, and god help them if they did, that is how we would be viewed) of our, or at least MY profession...perhaps we all should act like it.

By that I don't mean gathering together in a group hug and singing kumbaya, but by not acting like a lying, arrogant, @$$hat who, in all actuality and honesty, brought very little to the table beyond insults and anger. People talk about usafmedic as if he is some kind of EMS or medical guru...I don't understand it. While his comments may be attractive in that he said all the things to people that some of us may want to and never did, and I can see the appeal in that, it is not like he really had a wealth of knowledge and experience to fall back on...and I'm basing this off his own posts here as I don't know the man. A 31 year old with less than the current minimum educational requirements for his current field...who it would appear only worked in EMS as a teenage volunteer...who denigrates his own choosen profession (RT)...who seems to have the need to name drop and reference his "past" at every opportunity, acurately or not...who shares far less accurate information than he insults others...this is someone that people want to look up to?

People, please. As nice and satisfying as it may be to see someone else "put someone in their place" when rank imbicility is displayed...that only can work for so long, and in certain cirumstances. A time does come when, if you actually want to be a productive teacher, mentor, friend, associate, object of hero worship, whatever, you need to actually teach and share pertinent and worthwhile information, and in a way that the recipient will understand. It doesn't neccasarily need to be a nice way, but in needs to be done so that the point is understood. That has not happened in this case very often.

Should you tell people when they are wrong...yes. Harshly if needed...yes. Should you attempt to explain why something/one is wrong...yes. Should you insult people without explanation or need and generally complain about...well...everything...no.

But anyway...this isn't a new situation. Some people will get huffy, leave, and then come back. Some people will get pissy, say they are leaving and stick around. Some people will start posting again. And, as always, new posters will show up.

 

[fast65]

a shame manners is a dying art form.-_-

The same can be said for intellect and common sense, sometimes a lack of "manners" is the only thing that can overcome sheer stupidity.

I will agree with what usalafyre said though, it isn't in the best interests of our profession, nor this forum to let mediocrity go unnoticed and unaddressed. I will admit that yes, sometimes people on here can be I'll mannered, however sometimes that is the only way to get through to some people.

That being said, there are certainly instances where the rude behavior is uncalled for and I suppose that could be worked on. However, I question the emotional stability of someone who gets all sad because of what an anonymous person on the internet may have said.


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[mycrofft]

Running a forum/website is like running a little family trattoria (restaurant)

You have to balance what's going on to offer a forum for everyone, unless you have a different goal (such as focusing on a certain slant or level of knowledge or opinion). Sometimes a regular customer has to be warned or 86'ed because they are affecting too many others negatively. (I've taken some voluntary time-outs here for that reason, so I know what I'm ranting about).

I feel that strong opinions can be stated without attacking; cut out the personalities, generalizations and characterizations, focus on citing the truth as one knows it and backing it up with references.

Since in these sorts of deals the old posts float out of view downstream and new people come all the time, there isn't going to be a coherent "learning slope"; it will be more of a "learning undulation". If we don't accommodate some of our newer and less-experienced cohorts in, then we will eventually become a collection of old trolls waiting to pounce on new folks, and each other when we get bored. The website withers and dies.

I don't think it is our job as users to "run out" anyone, nor is it right to allow other users to run us out without tossing the flag. The mods have the job to try to keep thing fairly level and equal opportunity.

I will miss the contributions of some of our "mandatorily former" cohorts and hope to stay in contact with them; I will get amused and sometimes irked at the "under matured" posts by others; but I hope the former find a better, more-advanced platform, and the latter find that here they may get ribbed, corrected, butt not attacked or "run out".

 

[katgrl2003]

A 31 year old with less than the current minimum educational requirements for his current field...who it would appear only worked in EMS as a teenage volunteer...who denigrates his own choosen profession (RT)...who seems to have the need to name drop and reference his "past" at every opportunity, acurately or not...who shares far less accurate information than he insults others...this is someone that people want to look up to?

I know most of what I have to say on this subject will be considered biased, but I'm going to say it anyways.

31 year old that meets the requirements for his field. He worked as an Intermediate/supervisor in a paid department in Illinois until such time that he enlisted in the Air Force. The Air Force screwed up his paperwork an made him an respiratory therapist instead of his chosen field of radiology tech (all of which he has said on the forum multiple times). He met the educational requirement at the time of his training, and that therefore qualifies him currently. If the National Board for Respiratory Care in 5 states deems him trained, who are you to say otherwise?

So yes, this is someone I look up too. Quite a bit more than you.

 

[mycrofft]

Ah, I'm in the wrong website.

I guess I stumbled into the "Put Them In Their Place" forum when I thought I was at EMTLIFE.

I disagree with folks I otherwise respect greatly about this. Having for years been through the "know your place" thing (also known in more tender quarter as the "more in sorrow than in anger" deal) as a man in nursing, an EMT in a non-EMS FD and a former EMT with non-EMS instructors, it sort of sticks in my craw.
Except when I do it! :blush:

Let's argue facts and opinions, and not people or personalities.

 

[BandageBrigade]

I generally disagree with him on topics, but +1 to mycrofft on this. Nobodys forcing anyone to use the forums. If you dont like it dont post. I dont post a majority of the time because it would serve no purpose, my post would be rude or get someone mad, and then one of us would get a vacation. I try to post only when I have something of value to add that has not been said before. Notice I have no infraction points.

Lets not argue people/personalitys/credentials esp when people are not here to defend themselves. Thats not productive or cool. Heck I could be a 12 year old girl whose stuck in the 6th grade. You just dont know (I'm not btw). I dont believe or take stock in the credentials anyone says they have unless I know them or have at least got a real name/service listed. Just take stock in the value of the posts and leave it at that.

 

[DrParasite]

31 year old that meets the requirements for his field. He worked as an Intermediate/supervisor in a paid department in Illinois until such time that he enlisted in the Air Force. The Air Force screwed up his paperwork an made him an respiratory therapist instead of his chosen field of radiology tech (all of which he has said on the forum multiple times). He met the educational requirement at the time of his training, and that therefore qualifies him currently. If the National Board for Respiratory Care in 5 states deems him trained, who are you to say otherwise?

So yes, this is someone I look up too. Quite a bit more than you.

and unless you know this person in real life, how do you know anything he said is true? he could be a really consistent liar, who is really good at sticking to the story he made up. The truth is no one knows for sure.

I could be an MD/NREMT-P, who is a clinical coordinator & medical director and is on the leading edge of prehospital care, and like to play on the medic truck for fun. I'm not, but without knowing me in real life, who are you to say I'm not?

Being a Jerk is never right. Some people (myself included) have been a little harsher than needed, esp when confronted by someone with a different opinion, or in response to someone that asks a question that has been debated ad naseum. usually it takes an edit and a nasty gram from a moderator to get the person to calm down.

and if that doesn't work, well, despite people being knowledgeable and experienced, maybe this isn't the place for them.

 

[adamjh3]

and unless you know this person in real life, how do you know anything he said is true? he could be a really consistent liar, who is really good at sticking to the story he made up. The truth is no one knows for sure.

She does. A lot of people here do. I'm not among them, unfortunately. That's all I'm going to say in this thread.

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[firetender]

Community Rules explained

Simpler than the Golden Rule
we ask, please be polite.
Just 'cause you've got something to teach
does not give you the right

to pounce on people and call them names
when they don't think like you,
and push newcomers out the door
before one foot gets through.

It's no sign of great wisdom,
to berate, insult and trash.
It nullifies your message
and tags you as an ***.

If you feel entitled to abuse and mock
because you think you're smart,
that's really not a teacher's way;
it rips the class apart.

What I don't get (and most of all)
is who would make the choice
to disrespect and alienate
those who'd refine their voice?

When all we're really asking for is Look
at what you're doing
while most everyone else plays by the rules
you're giving them a screwing!

Rid, Rogue and Bledsoe all are strong
because the things they teach
are meant to challenge and poke and prod
while extending out their reach.

Please follow their lead and keep it right,
your peers here all deserve it.
Remember respect must run both ways,
if you want community then serve it.

 

[katgrl2003]

She does. A lot of people here do. I'm not among them, unfortunately. That's all I'm going to say in this thread.

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I will say it. I'm dating him and sleep next to him every day.

 

[DrParasite]

She does. A lot of people here do. I'm not among them, unfortunately. That's all I'm going to say in this thread.

you missed the point, and the part where I said: "and unless you know this person in real life." a couple people on here know me in real life. most don't, and i'm ok with that.

a little anonymity can be a good thing (not that I wouldn't mind meeting some of you outside of EMTlife), especially if you have unpopular views (despite the non-vocal majority actually agreeing with you).

 

[adamjh3]

you missed the point, and the part where I said: "and unless you know this person in real life." a couple people on here know me in real life. most don't, and i'm ok with that.

a little anonymity can be a good thing (not that I wouldn't mind meeting some of you outside of EMTlife), especially if you have unpopular views (despite the non-vocal majority actually agreeing with you).

I said it more for clarification for those who don't know.

Btw you're one of the few I admire and have learned a lot from on here

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