Which should EMS be merged with

[fortsmithman]

Should EMS be merged with a law enforcement agency or fire dept. Personally I'd be more comfortable with being affiliated with a law enforcement agency because on a lot of of the calls i've been on we work with law enforcement. I've only been on a call with fire once. As well my agency is headed by my towns community constable.

 

[TransportJockey]

This is one thing that I think should not happen in either direction. I truly believe that EMS needs to be a standalone agency, separate from PD or FD.

 

[emtfarva]

neither, rather have it as a third service.

 

[fortsmithman]

This is one thing that I think should not happen in either direction. I truly believe that EMS needs to be a standalone agency, separate from PD or FD.

I agree but which would your choice be if it were forced on you. The only reason the community constable is in charge is that no one wanted the job it was forced on him.

 

[emtfarva]

it would be fire.

 

[Sasha]

Here, most of EMS is merged with fire service already.

 

[PapaBear434]

I would LOVE for EMS to be a third service, but unfortunately it isn't likely to happen with money situations being the way it is. Twenty years ago, firefighters had a lot more to do than endlessly drill. There were actual fires. Now, thanks to new fire retardant building materials, fire codes, sprinkler systems and government mandated fire extinguishers every couple hundred feet, there aren't many big fires to deal with anymore.

From a purely financial standpoint, it makes sense to combine the Fire and EMS services. Because while firefighters don't do their intended purposes all that much, you definitely want them around when a fire DOES happen. You can't under-staff them. In the mean time, they might as well be doing SOMETHING. And with the baby boomers just getting older and older, EMS is going to be sucking up the budgets more and more.

Now, I think it would save more money in the long run to keep EMS a third service. It HAS to cost less to send out a two man truck with one medic than sending out an entire engine with six or seven people for a lady with SOB. But convincing the purse-keepers isn't going to be easy, as they pretty much deal in short term gains. What can I do NOW to increase my numbers NOW to get reelected?

 

[Bosco578]

EMS should be merged with your local Taxi cab company(s). :birthday:

 

[Sasha]

It HAS to cost less to send out a two man truck with one medic than sending out an entire engine with six or seven people for a lady with SOB.

On a slightly unrelated note, while the six or seven people may be far too much for run of the mill calls, it's nice that when you get there and your SOB is critical you have six people to pull from into the back of the truck.

Perhaps I'm spoiled, doing all my rides with a fire service that tones out both the two to three man engine along with the 2 to 3 man rescue. I've never been short handed!

 

[lightsandsirens5]

Well, we already are part of the SO, so we're under LE.

Sasha, you guys staff engines with six people?!? Or is that sarcasim? Most departments are lucky if their engine is staffed with 3!

 

[Sasha]

Ah. I typed that wrong. It's nice to know there's an extra two people to pull into the back.

Sometimes, though, depending on what the call was dispatched as, you DO have six people!

We were dispatched for a "child seizing" once. We got two engines, two rescues, and a fire chief. Turned out to be a 19 year old who'se mom called for some muscle twitching in his sleep, but wow! It was a lot of people!

 

[silver]

we should rejoin funeral homes, and then corner the market of death, as it is a recession proof business.

 

[PapaBear434]

Perhaps I'm spoiled, doing all my rides with a fire service that tones out both the two to three man engine along with the 2 to 3 man rescue. I've never been short handed!

Fire gets called out if they are closest. It comes down to who will be there first. If we beat them there, we'll usually call them off.

 

[AJ Hidell]

Law enforcement, by far. We actually have something other than sirens in common with law enforcement. We have nothing in common with the fire service. Success as a law enforcement officer takes strong critical thinking skills, an attention to details, powers of observation, a knowledge of the techniques and importance of good documentation skills, and an understanding of sociology and social order. None of that is necessary to squirt water, and firemen are not hired for those qualities. So, if you're talking about the qualities that those people bring to the table that would suit them to the practice of medicine, there is simply no comparison between the two. All other factors being equal, I can turn an experienced cop into a much better medic than an experienced fireman, no doubt about it.

But yeah, EMS should not have anything to do with either service. And for the reasons that PapaBear [incorrectly] laid out, if any merging is going to be done, the fire department should be merged with EMS, and not vice versa. After all, we're the ones who are actually working for a living.

 

[Sasha]

we should rejoin funeral homes, and then corner the market of death, as it is a recession proof business.

You may run into a conflict of interest there!

 

[medic417]

We should join the hospital. We are medical. We have nothing in common with fire or le. Recall even the IAFF said something along the lines that multitasking leads to poor results.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

Success as a law enforcement officer takes strong critical thinking skills, an attention to details, powers of observation, a knowledge of the techniques and importance of good documentation skills, and an understanding of sociology and social order. None of that is necessary to squirt water.....

Really?!?!?!? Number one, the fire dept. does more that squirt water! :angry: Second, are you trying to say that it doesn’t take strong critical thinking skills to facilitate an urban SAR or work a multi-story building collapse? Or that you don't need attention to detail, powers of observation, and knowledge of the techniques involved to fight a structure fire?!? (Engine of big, fat, dumb clowns rolls up on scene, clowns jump out, run into burning house, roof collapses, kills all of them.) I'd venture to say that a structure fire (or any fire for that matter!) can be more volatile, dangerous, and unpredictable than an armed criminal! Documentation?!?! Don't even go there; maybe your starting firefighter doesn’t do as much paperwork as your starting cop, but anyone in fire with any rank does! And with computers that practically write reports for us now, it doesn’t take a nuclear engineer to write a PCR anymore.

.......and firemen are not hired for those qualities.

Huh?!?!? They aren't. My answer is kind of implied above. Add to that that lots of departments are now requiring at least some kind of college education to get on. (At least if you don't want to be a probie your whole life.) That is more than EMS requires.

All other factors being equal, I can turn an experienced cop into a much better medic than an experienced fireman, no doubt about it.

Care to explain how and why?

And for the reasons that PapaBear [incorrectly] laid out, if any merging is going to be done, the fire department should be merged with EMS, and not vice versa. After all, we're the ones who are actually working for a living.

So what exactly are all of the firefighters in the U.S. doing if they aren't working for a living? Are you saying it isn't a living, or are you saying that they aren't actually "working"?

All of what you have said is a jab in the eye of almost every single firefighter in this country.

 

[Sasha]

Second, are you trying to say that it doesn’t take strong critical thinking skills to facilitate an urban SAR or work a multi-story building collapse?

What he's trying to say is he doesn't like fire fighters, therefore he thinks they're dumb.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

What he's trying to say is he doesn't like fire fighters, therefore he thinks they're dumb.

Typical opinion of firefighters: Fat, dumb, and happy. (And tyrants trying to take over EMS.:wacko

 

[medic417]

Typical opinion of firefighters: Fat, dumb, and happy. (And tyrants trying to take over EMS.:wacko

Honestly the water and sewer department should take over fire. They are familiar with the calculations regarding water flow, pressure, etc. Definitly more in line than having EMS take over fire. EMS is medical and should be part of the medical system not fire or le.