What has changed for your company and your own attitude toward safety since 9/11?

[VentMedic]

I was just watching the tragic events occurring in India and was wondering what has changed in regards to your company's preparedness since 9/11?


Do you pay attention of the Federal and Homeland alert systems?

Has your company implemented any additional preparedness protocols for MCI or terrorists threats?

A terrorist attack can also be home grown as those in Oklahoma or near the Centennial Olympic Park bombing are well aware. I also put Jonestown (30th anniversary this month) into that category although the situation was very different but involved several deadly and tragic scenarios.

Has your communication system been updated?

Does your company have a designated alternative base or communication system?

Do you have extra air filtering equipment or special PPE on your ambulance?

Have you received extra training?

Would you get the urge to heroic but potentially deadly acts to rescue people?

Or, do you think this can not happen again on American soil?

How many can explain what wars and who our soldiers are fighting right now?

How many are starting to see the soldiers who had been injured in battle now with various medical or med-psych situatons?

How many remember the post Vietnam years and the way it changed some medical practices including EMS?

How many don't watch TV, don't read newspapers and could care less as long as it is not in their own backyard?

 

[daedalus]

How many don't watch TV, don't read newspapers and could care less as long as it is not in their own backyard?

This would be the ignorance of the century. We are in the age of information technology. Everything that happens in the world is also your backyard. With the possibility of hacking into the country's power grid, and the threat of nuclear terrorism, its time to start paying attention. Yesterday was only a reminder.

My service carries nuclear escape hoods, a bag of triage tags, helmets, and Mark I kits. Our communications systems are pretty shi**ty

 

[firecoins]

9/11 was in my backyard. I had been in lower Manhattan several blocks from the WTC on 9/10 and stayed until 2am which was technically 9/11. I was obviously not there at the events later that morning. I feel lucky to have not been there on the 11th and glad it did not occur on the 10th.

I expect to respond to a major terror incident in the near future although I hope to be wrong. Yesterday the FBI arrested someone in Pakistan involved with a plan to blow up trains in NYC and suburbs. I am working in Westchester so I cover Metro North trains. Britain believes a terrorist organization was trying to purchase ambulances on EBAY to use as bombs. I personally keep an eye out for stuff.

NYS requires all EMS personnel to get atro-pen training for nerve agents by their agency.

I don't watch American television or cable news at all. I don't believe them to contain accurate information as my experience with them has not been good. I review several different foreign news sources for international news.

communication is still a major problem in NYS and NYC.

 

[BossyCow]

After 9/11 the department of homeland security tossed a bunch of money at local emergency facilities, most of it useless. For instance, the largest civic fire department was given a toxin sniffer that has very expensive reagents which expire every 6 mos or so and must be kept updated. They gave everyone satellite phones which must be maintained and paid for at about $45 a month. So far the only time one was used was when the local fire chief and two other suits from the city got lost on a hiking trip. The chief had his city phone and used it to call for help.

The only positive step I've seen has been the focus on interagency communications. With our geography, we get spotty cell and radio communications. That has improved. We have also gotten all the different agencies using the same order of frequencies and radio designations so if you end up using a Law Enforcement radio, you can find the frequency you need with little or no effort.

Aside from that, funds for MCI drills have all been limited to terrorist scenarios, which really helped us with Katrina! Our paranoia has outstripped our common sense on many fronts. FEMA lost key personnel, who actually knew how to manage disasters. As in the past, the future of Emergency management will be most effective in the hands of the non-governmental, local church groups and volunteer organizations who will be able to just do what needs to be done, to mitigate the impact on the citizenry without paperwork in triplicate and permission from government agencies.

As for news, I tend to get my news from a variety of sources. I like to read the news from the extremes of both sides, because I believe the truth is generally somewhere in the middle.

Life goes on, no matter what happens around you, life goes on. To become so focused on what may strike you unexpectedly that you lose sight of the day to day is pointless. The whole impact of an event like 9/11 is due to its unexpectedness. If we expect one thing, a terrorist will find something else. It is the nature of a terrorist. I for one, will not allow the possibility of terrorism to interfere with my life. If it happens, I will deal with it, one step at a time, one day at a time, doing what I can to overcome the obstacles created. But I am not so much of a control freak to think that it is within my power to avoid or plan for the actions of madmen.

 

[VentMedic]

Life goes on, no matter what happens around you, life goes on. To become so focused on what may strike you unexpectedly that you lose sight of the day to day is pointless. The whole impact of an event like 9/11 is due to its unexpectedness. If we expect one thing, a terrorist will find something else. It is the nature of a terrorist. I for one, will not allow the possibility of terrorism to interfere with my life. If it happens, I will deal with it, one step at a time, one day at a time, doing what I can to overcome the obstacles created. But I am not so much of a control freak to think that it is within my power to avoid or plan for the actions of madmen.

True. But, if you work in EMS or for a hospital system to which people will depend on you in case of an emergency, it would be naive to bury one's head in the sand and pretend it couldn't happen to you. This does not have to be a terrorist attack but also a natural disaster or fire. When hospitals or EMS do not have plans B, C, and D to fall back on when it counts, we can expect to see another repeat of the mess in New Orleans as far the the hospitals, ambulances and LTC facilities are concerned. The thing is you can not could on a government agency to respond quickly within the first few minutes or hours. Patients will be depending on the hear and now.

I regularly attend our "planning" committee meetings and most of the stuff looks great on paper. But, when asked just were the extra supplies are stored and if everyone has been inserviced on the extra emergency supplies, I get blank stares Planning on paper and action or implementation each require different expertise or methodologies to make a system work. When some of the middle or frontline members of the team are left in the dark, it doesn't work too well. Many read their P&P manuals but few ask who, what and where or if it is practical for most situations.

Drills are great, but running around with simulated injuries may be meaningless if access to the bulk of the supplies are not easily obtainable. If you are a dedicated medical professional, taking care of the sick and injured will come easily and you will do the right things if you have had some training. It is knowing where the supplies are coming from and where to take the patients that will become the difficult parts as well as getting them there safely. The few supplies on an ambulance will be easily used up in a few minutes at a serious MCI. The same with a hospital. It doesn't take much to exhaust even a large liquid O2 supply at some hospitals.

People should pay attention to how other areas of this country have handled or didn't handle their emergencies. We've now had many earthquakes, fires, hurricanes, toronadoes and floods to get some thinking about our own back yards and if we would be able to help our neighbors. This doesn't include the chemical fires, leaks and spills that have occurred in recent times. I know a couple of communities in the SF Bay area that hear "Shelter-in-Place" alerts way too often.

 

[Hastings]

Nothing has. Nothing at all. Terrorists are no more of a threat than they were before 9/11. We were prepared then, we're prepared now. We're not the types down here to overreact to events like 9/11.

 

[VentMedic]

Nothing has. Nothing at all. Terrorists are no more of a threat than they were before 9/11. We were prepared then, we're prepared now. We're not the types down here to overreact to events like 9/11.

Overreact? I don't know if the men and women serving this country would consider that the appropriate term for an "event like 9/11" or the reason they are fighting terrorism. The majority of those serving in our armed forces are pretty proud of their country and believe in what they are fighting for and against.

Was it just another day in the life of an EMT? Did it not even bother you that men and women including LEOs, FFs and EMS employees lost their lives? Do you not even realize this country is involved in a couple of wars? Anytime a country is at war, anyplace or anyone is fair game.

Have you even heard of a little storm called Katrina? Granted you were probably still a toddler during Hugo and Andrew, but both of those storms required Americans helping each other and EMS played a big role. How about the Oklahoma Fed building bombing? Oakland Hills fires? How about the many different storms and fires we've had this year?

We're not the types down here to overreact to events like 9/11.

And where is "down here"?

Us Southerners are pretty proud of this country. Most will also go out of their way to help a neighbor in the time of need as during a natural disaster. We will also help and have helped those in NYC.

How much do you even know about 9/11? Do you realize the reason I asked about communication systems?

Making sure you have a decent communication system or few extra plans in place is NOT that big of a deal for most and as EMS employees, you may be called to help in a flood, fire or bombing. I think all the the situations I have mentioned can be and should be examined to learn something from.

Yeah, no one notices until it is in their own backyard and then they blame everyone else for them not being prepared.

 

[Hastings]

The reason we're in the two wars that you referenced is because people DID overreact to 9/11.

Regardless, 9/11 was just another disaster. We're prepared here to deal with disasters, whether they be tornadoes or terrorist attacks. Always have been. Nothing has changed because we've been prepared.

You know why 9/11 was so fatal for the responders? They WEREN'T prepared.

 

[VentMedic]

Regardless, 9/11 was just another disaster.

Wow! How soon they forget! Just another disaster?

You know why 9/11 was so fatal for the responders? They WEREN'T prepared.

That IS the point for starting this thread. What have people learned from other disasters including 9/11 which is NOT just another disaster.

We were prepared then,

Which is it, prepared or not prepared?

 

[Ridryder911]

What have I seen ...not-ta, nothing upon the EMS side except wasting what little monies that was given to EMS is now wasted.

What I have seen is billions of dollars wasted! It has became a beuracrats wet dream! Along with Fire Chiefs and Emergency Management that wondered how they were going to pay for next years budget or even their existence.

Sorry, there is no reason why millions are spent upon Hazmat suits in areas that will never use them or billions of dollars on "command centers". What a joke and worse is the public assumes that they are needed and used! Shame that those that issued and those that received such funding are not being charged with fraud and embezzlement! Alike anyone else issued monies, they should have to justify the reason(s) and potential risks that are present not the "what if" theory!

How many fire services were able to shift funding to hire more personnel (even though fire suppression responses numbers are the lowest ever) and still be able to purchase that new pumper?

Meanwhile, in the real world ; granny still has an AMI and the young mother still has clamptic seizures and guess what .....no funding to provide ALS! Meanwhile the shiny command centers with million of dollars of equipment gather dust and rot in some fire station parking lot.

Here's an idea! Let's start with a great foundation of the ability to provide day to day care, then and if another horrible disaster happens, we will be prepared for it. Sure include MCI education within it, obtain additional equipment within reason. As the old saying "Be Prepared", but use common sense.

R/r 911

 

[firecoins]

Regardless, 9/11 was just another disaster. We're prepared here to deal with disasters, whether they be tornadoes or terrorist attacks. Always have been. Nothing has changed because we've been prepared.

You know why 9/11 was so fatal for the responders? They WEREN'T prepared.

FDNY, NYPD and the PAPD saved thousands of lives while climbing up two 110 story burning buildings. I assure you your department is not prepared for a terrorist attack of that magnitutde.

 

[VentMedic]

What have I seen ...not-ta, nothing upon the EMS side except wasting what little monies that was given to EMS is now wasted.

What I have seen is billions of dollars wasted! It has became a beuracrats wet dream! Along with Fire Chiefs and Emergency Management that wondered how they were going to pay for next years budget or even their existence.

Sorry, there is no reason why millions are spent upon Hazmat suits in areas that will never use them or billions of dollars on "command centers". What a joke and worse is the public assumes that they are needed and used! Shame that those that issued and those that received such funding are not being charged with fraud and embezzlement! Alike anyone else issued monies, they should have to justify the reason(s) and potential risks that are present not the "what if" theory!

How many fire services were able to shift funding to hire more personnel (even though fire suppression responses numbers are the lowest ever) and still be able to purchase that new pumper?

Meanwhile, in the real world ; granny still has an AMI and the young mother still has clamptic seizures and guess what .....no funding to provide ALS! Meanwhile the shiny command centers with million of dollars of equipment gather dust and rot in some fire station parking lot.

Here's an idea! Let's start with a great foundation of the ability to provide day to day care, then and if another horrible disaster happens, we will be prepared for it. Sure include MCI education within it, obtain additional equipment within reason. As the old saying "Be Prepared", but use common sense.

R/r 911

I also included natural disasters. I work several hurricane every year and have seen over and over inadequately equipped companies that couldn't babysit a barbeque let alone do a hurricane evacuation or the care needed afterwards. They've been through them before and still have the attitude of letting someone else come in and bring their equipment and supplies from their town to use.

I've also seen many training scenarios done yearly by EMS and FDs that have failed to communicate or coordinate and include hospitals or even each other. Many do train for scenarios that might have little chance of happening while being clueless as to what to do about that big refinery or chemical plant. Everytime they bring in a burn (heat or chemical) patient from one of these plants, which minor to moderate burns happen on occasion in just day to day operation, the EMS providers act like it is their very first. Heaven help the employees of those factories in a major situations. Many EMS providers do not know what the major chemicals are or the decontamination procedure. This thread could be tied to the Emergency O2 or onsite industrial first-aid because at least the employees will know what to do luckily.

You can also read some of the reviews of the L.A. train wreck and see missing links. Disaster doesn't always come with a couple of big buildings being hit by airplanes. Ride a crowded subway at rush hour during the holidays and think of a few things that could easily go wrong from a derailment or a fire in the tunnel.

Again, I'm not saying to go over board, but too few are equipped with education, knowledge or supplies to with the hazards in their own backyard.

If EMT(P)s did take an interest in some of the day to day issues including where the funding is going or be more aware of how their EMS system works or what it depends on, it would be not as easy for those in power/administration to side track the monies for other purposes. Very few even know how their ambulance service exists from day to day.

Several on the frontlines of EMS do display little interest in doing better care for the little old lady having an AMI which is why EMS has stagnated and even gone backwards during the past 40 years after a good start. As far as they are concerned, it's adequate and that's the way it has always been. It is just like "we're prepared" when they have too little education, knowledge or information to even know what, why and how they are prepared.

 

[Hastings]

FDNY, NYPD and the PAPD saved thousands of lives while climbing up two 110 story burning buildings. I assure you your department is not prepared for a terrorist attack of that magnitutde.

Don't have to be. We don't have Skyscrapers here.

But as a smart department, we've figured out what kinds of horrible disasters ARE possible, and have put much time into preparing for those.

That being said, we also send crews to other areas when necessary to assist during hurricanes, etc.

 

[firecoins]

Don't have to be. We don't have Skyscrapers here.

Right but you incorrectly infer the FDNY and NYPd were not prepared for skyscraper emergencies. I doubt you are familar with FDNY and NYPD plans pre or post 9/11.

But as a smart department, we've figured out what kinds of horrible disasters ARE possible, and have put much time into preparing for those.

If the brown stuff hits the fan, we will see. NYC had plans pre 9/11 too.

That being said, we also send crews to other areas when necessary to assist during hurricanes, etc.

So does the FNDY and NYPD.

 

[BLSBoy]

Do you pay attention of the Federal and Homeland alert systems?Yes I do.

Has your company implemented any additional preparedness protocols for MCI or terrorists threats? Yes. I work for AtlantiCare Regional Medical Center EMS, which is the Lead Agency for South Jersey's section of the NJ EMS Task Force. I can't really go into specifics, but we ARE prepared for a multitude of emergencies that would confront us.

A terrorist attack can also be home grown as those in Oklahoma or near the Centennial Olympic Park bombing are well aware. I also put Jonestown (30th anniversary this month) into that category although the situation was very different but involved several deadly and tragic scenarios.

Has your communication system been updated?This in Jersey, where Home Rule is king. Our communications are spotty at best. There is talk of a county wide dispatching center in the near future, but to be able to hear another unit unless you are VERY close to them, or you are working dispatch is rare.

Does your company have a designated alternative base or communication system? We have a Mobile MedCom, and the county has a mobile dispatching center. There is, literally, EVERYthing that is inside, is in that mobile center. Down to the fridge for dispatchers.

Do you have extra air filtering equipment or special PPE on your ambulance?NJ has provided every EMS agency (and I use that term loosely) with a CBRNE kit for each ambulance, including suit, gloves, boots, and tape. None are actually my size, but hey.....

Have you received extra training?CBRNE and HAZMAT Awareness are mandatory at every level. Ops is in my near future, as I will be on the NJ EMS Task Force.

Would you get the urge to heroic but potentially deadly acts to rescue people? If I was properely trained, and equipped.

Or, do you think this can not happen again on American soil? It can, and it will. It is just a matter of time.

How many can explain what wars and who our soldiers are fighting right now? We currently have US Armed Forces in Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, Germany, and Serbia, to name a few. There are open conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, with troops at a high level of readyness in Korea. We are currently fighting factions of Muslim extremeists in Iraq and Afghanistan, the largest being Al-Queda. We are prepared to battle the North Koreans, and possibly the Chinese, should the fecal matter hit the overhead oscillating device in North Korea.

How many are starting to see the soldiers who had been injured in battle now with various medical or med-psych situatons? I have not.

How many remember the post Vietnam years and the way it changed some medical practices including EMS? WAYYY before my time, but I understand that it played a large role in bringing air care to the civilians, as well as starting what would later become EMS as we know it.

How many don't watch TV, don't read newspapers and could care less as long as it is not in their own backyard? I try to be proactive, and prepare for what will be coming. Living in Jersey is a LOT different then living in Florida. We are much more dense (population wise), and have multiple large cities in our state, and boarder two of the largest.

And my 10 charachters or more for length.

 

[NJN]

Do you have extra air filtering equipment or special PPE on your ambulance?NJ has provided every EMS agency (and I use that term loosely) with a CBRNE kit for each ambulance, including suit, gloves, boots, and tape. None are actually my size, but hey.....

Have you received extra training?CBRNE and HAZMAT Awareness are mandatory at every level. Ops is in my near future, as I will be on the NJ EMS Task Force.

Yes use "every" VERY VERY VERY loosely, the only thing close to that are some hoods with respirators on them, we don't even have complete sets of turnouts on our rigs.

As for the CBRNE and HAZMAT, BWAH HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Maybe later, but i haven't been forced to take them in the year and a half i've been a member of an EMS agency.

 

[BLSBoy]

Yes use "every" VERY VERY VERY loosely, the only thing close to that are some hoods with respirators on them, we don't even have complete sets of turnouts on our rigs.

As for the CBRNE and HAZMAT, BWAH HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Maybe later, but i haven't been forced to take them in the year and a half i've been a member of an EMS agency.

Perhaps that is an agency thing for us, but every where I have worked has been stocked with the CBRNE gear.

They are both available online, for free.

www.njoemscert.com

Login, click on course catalog, then catalog, advanced search, under training type, click the bubble for online, then search.
CBRNE and HAZMAT Awareness, as well as ICS-100 are available.

My advice is to WAIT until you get your EMT cert though. They are 4 CEUs each for the Awareness certs, and 2 for ICS-100. But they wont count until after you get your card. I got my ICS-100 before my EMT card, so I gotta retake it for it it count.

 

[BossyCow]

We do more planning on the Public Health side for a future pandemic. We do have natural disasters on a yearly basis when the winter storms hit. We lose power several times a year, sometimes for up to a week. We have roads wash out, sometimes even th major highways and have to use a detour route. As far as supplies, each station in our district has enough to get by without hospital re-stocking for at least a month at a higher than normal number of calls. We have had to use this because of our remote location and the number of times we've been unable to get freight delivered due to winter storm conditions

I live in an unusual area. If the poo were to hit the ventilation here, my citizenry would be less likely to call EMS and more likely to help each other and themselves.

As far as preparation for pandemics, we have arrangements set up for emergency care at the local school and grange hall. The biggest concern according to our local health dept is going to be fluid replacement for the ill. We have a number of IV techs, RNs and other healthcare workers in our district who have been placed on notice that they will be asked to help. Given that a percentage of them will also either be ill themselves or have ill family to attend to. IV starts and tubing are kept in full supply with solution to be provided by the local hospital. We have the local CERT teams set up to run supplies if needed.

Big focus on the pandemic side is to avoid transport of the ill to the hospital unless they are critical. Most will be treated at community centers. We had a 'drill' on this last winter. Huge ice storm hit, knocked out power, roads, the system in place swung into motion. Unfortunately, the hospital's plan was to turf as many pts as possible to local nursing homes, while the nursing home's plan was to turf as many as possible to the hospital. We now include the nursing homes in our planning meetings.

So, yes, we have a plan. But this is in place for all emergencies, disasters and pandemics. The system needs to work regardless of what precipitating event initiates it. I had family endangered by the events of 9/11. I will never, ever forget that day. But I will not allow it to define my future. Planning for disasters and being prepared for whatever life tosses into our path is a part of being a responsible adult. Making sure my community can handle events of daunting magnitude is part of being a chief officer in a civic department. I am part of the process, but my experience tells me that no matter how well you plan, the nature of a disaster is it will show you the flaws in your plan. At that point, common sense and the ability to create a solution to an immediate problem are more important than the plan.