What does an employer need to do to provide First Aid and O2 to employees

[Jeremy89]

This is an interesting thread, as I was at the mall yesterday and noticed below the AED wall mount at guest services, they had an orange bag with "OXYGEN" on the side of it. Unless the security guards were EMTs I don't know who could administer it without some type of license. Just an interesting observation.

 

[mycrofft]

The watershed the employer is straddling is entitled "In the course of employment".

AED's and fixed-flow 6 lpm O2 with a mask, like first aid kits, are likely ok for use by almost anyone if they are labelled, stored, displayed and maintained in a fashion in accordance with local law. The insurer or parent company may have other rules. The intent is that if Sally or Dave fall out at work, the airport, or wherever, someone can go pull the AED/O2/first aid kit, run back and start treatment in a very prescribed limited manner after or while calling for help if needed (not needed means a litle owie and then work comp or insurance papers are sure to follow anyway). Here in Calif., CAOSHA requires a minimal first aid kit in the workplace and some folks make a good living maintaining them and their records, sometimes in connection with fire extinguishers.

If the non-medical employer wants to hire in-house EMS he or she is better advised to contract it out and work closely with her/his insurance and a lawyer.

If an employer wants to encourage people to learn first aid etc., good, but they are still limited to the first aid kit/O2/AED set.

If an employer is encouraging people to be prepared to act as good samaritans on premises but with the tacit intent of forming a de facto organic EMS capability, whether or not it is done intentionally or just because it sounds cool, someone's going to be liable when something goes wrong. EVERYONE may be liable. This segues into the threads we have had about unpaid standby duty, you have to protect yourself, the employer and the patients by not going too far, if at all, down that path, flattering as it may be.

 

[VentMedic]

This is an interesting thread, as I was at the mall yesterday and noticed below the AED wall mount at guest services, they had an orange bag with "OXYGEN" on the side of it. Unless the security guards were EMTs I don't know who could administer it without some type of license. Just an interesting observation.

Please read my earlier posts in this thread concerning EMERGENCY OXYGEN. One does not have to be an EMT to give EMERGENCY OXYGEN. EMERGENCY OXYGEN is considered OTC or non-perscription for EMERGENCIES. I even included the FDA statement in my earlier post.

For more information, there are many agencies you can contact including the AHA, ARC and DAN. I know the ARC and DAN offer classes just for EMERGENCY OXYGEN use.

However, this does not mean that EMTs are allowed to carry O2 with them off duty "just because". That is NOT what the FDA and other O2 regulating agencies meant when they stated "access to EMERGENCY O2".

 

[daedalus]

This is ridiculous. Will onsite oxygen really make a difference for the "patient"?

Learn CPR and techniques for relief of FBAO. Thats all you need to have at a place of business. An AED is something to consider if the companies budget allows for it AND medical direction, but having any medical devices beyond an AED is absurd.

 

[VentMedic]

This is ridiculous. Will onsite oxygen really make a difference for the "patient"?

Absolutely it can make a difference in some situations!

The non-prescription O2 act was updated in 2000 to clarify and make O2 readily accessible for schools and dive boats (as a great example). Children are very sensitive to hypoxic situations and the first line for them is OXYGEN and that is even stressed in PALS. Diving emergencies can also benefit from very quick administration of O2. I believe Mycroft and I had that discussion several threads ago. There are also businesses such as hardware stores or even carpet outlets that can trigger an asthma attack. Stores that one would not expect a RAD trigger to be might surprise even the most cautious asthmatic.

COPD exacerbations can also be common. People don't like to be and shouldn't be confined to a bed in their home all the time. They are encouraged to have a life even if there is a risk of something happening. Knowing they are going to a place of business or even health club or spa where there can be someone to help them until EMS arrives is comforting. OTC or Emergency O2 was also meant to be used in certain therapy offices such as Chiropractors, PT and Dentists.

So, I can think of many, many situations where Emergency O2 can be of benefit.

Like the Epi pen in the school systems, O2 can be controversial. But, for certain populations and certain businesses, it can be beneficial to have around.

Many companies can get grants for placing an AED and Emergency O2 onsite. Some insurance companies might even give businesses a discount and some states may even require both the AED and Emergency O2 to be present at certain businesses.

Stay informed with your area's statutes and regulations.

And, you never know when you might need a backup AED or O2 tank when you are at one of these businesses if something happens to yours.

 

[LifeLine]

And, you never know when you might need a backup AED or O2 tank when you are at one of these businesses if something happens to yours.

Great information. This is why I feel it is very important for any company or organization even thinking about an AED or Oxygen work with their local EMS to ensure a efficient hand off in an emergency. Sticking with the same brand as local EMS helps. Much better than trying to figure out what adapter fits different pads.

If an employer wants to encourage people to learn first aid etc., good, but they are still limited to the first aid kit/O2/AED set.

If an employer is encouraging people to be prepared to act as good samaritans on premises but with the tacit intent of forming a de facto organic EMS capability, whether or not it is done intentionally or just because it sounds cool, someone's going to be liable when something goes wrong. EVERYONE may be liable. This segues into the threads we have had about unpaid standby duty, you have to protect yourself, the employer and the patients by not going too far, if at all, down that path, flattering as it may be.

Some employers should do more than encourage people to learn first aid. In many states it is a requirement that employees are trained in first aid/CPR/AED. Some states it is required if the employer has an AED on premise. Many times it all depends on the occupation. In all states it only goes as far as basic first aid/CPR/AED, and does not require more advanced training.

 

[VentMedic]

Great information. This is why I feel it is very important for any company or organization even thinking about an AED or Oxygen work with their local EMS to ensure a efficient hand off in an emergency. Sticking with the same brand as local EMS helps. Much better than trying to figure out what adapter fits different pads.

You're dreamin' big although not impossible. We've got hospitals that have monitors that don't match other monitors or any equipment to mix and match in an emergency. We have 12 different EMS and FD/EMS agencies that all have different equipment. Each one believes their equipment is the best and that is what the hospital should match. No one talks to the other or if they do, few want to listen.

Some employers should do more than encourage people to learn first aid. In many states it is a requirement that employees are trained in first aid/CPR/AED. Some states it is required if the employer has an AED on premise. Many times it all depends on the occupation. In all states it only goes as far as basic first aid/CPR/AED, and does not require more advanced training.

As far as training lay persons, I have cousins who are coal miners that put in way more hours than most Paramedic programs just going through basic life saving methods and first aid as it applies to their situations. AND, they are almost religious about keeping up their knowledge and skills. They just know it has to be done to make their work environment safe and don't complain about the many mandatory hours of extra training.

 

[mycrofft]

"Smooth handoff" isn't that complicated. (I'm thinking urban here).

They want a subject not at room temp, not exacerbated by erroneous treatments (i.e., Johnson and Johnson first aid cream on burns, people giving their own Rx meds to subjects), and basic information the subject may not be able to give.

I got together with our responding EMS and received a copy of their worksheet, modified it slightly to serve our purposes, and they love getting the info in the same format they need to record it in. Now they will know what we did to whom and why/when, what meds they are supposedly taking, etc.

How about each worker gets and keeps a wallet card with medical info on their person? Include contact numebrs for spouse or family, your MD, your allergies/meds/blood type and any chronic conditions.

PS: This doesn't impact rural/extreme situations nor preparation for emergencies/disasters where medical response will be severely delayed, just the concept of flooding your urban/suburban workplace with willing Good Sam's and depending upon them to at as your medical brigade in any medical emergency.

 

[BossyCow]

They want a subject not at room temp, not exacerbated by erroneous treatments (i.e., Johnson and Johnson first aid cream on burns, people giving their own Rx meds to subjects), and basic information the subject may not be able to give.

I got together with our responding EMS and received a copy of their worksheet, modified it slightly to serve our purposes, and they love getting the info in the same format they need to record it in. Now they will know what we did to whom and why/when, what meds they are supposedly taking, etc.

How about each worker gets and keeps a wallet card with medical info on their person? Include contact numebrs for spouse or family, your MD, your allergies/meds/blood type and any chronic conditions.

PS: This doesn't impact rural/extreme situations nor preparation for emergencies/disasters where medical response will be severely delayed, just the concept of flooding your urban/suburban workplace with willing Good Sam's and depending upon them to at as your medical brigade in any medical emergency.

I just did this same thing with our local school. They have a number of the 'high tech kids' with some pretty specific health needs. New administration of the school wanted to make sure that the responding EMS agency was aware of what was there and what may be needed in the case of an emergency at the school. We've had a number of close calls there already, 12yo with a gun on school grounds, an armed burglary suspect fleeing across school grounds and an almost plane crash near the school. Just enough to keep us on our toes and take a hard look at the 'what ifs'