Today's Call

[CFRBryan347768]

was a 62 y/o f, who tripped over the cub and went face first. upon arriving on scene she is sitting up on the curb with 2 medics a cop and her friend she was walking w/ near her. she explained what happened, and wanted to go to the hospital(i didnt blame her) the whole left side of her face was bruised, and she said he teeth didnt feel right. so i go grab the collar and backboard and when i go to collar her, she refuses. So i explained why i was doing it and why i suggested it be done and she still refused. as long as i made her aware of the danger of not allowing me to collar and back board her, im covered right, like if she tried to sue?

 

[wexlerk13]

i'm no lawyer but...yes you should be all set but make sure its in your report that she refused c-spine, and try to have someone else make a note of it as well

 

[CFRBryan347768]

i'm no lawyer but...yes you should be all set but make sure its in your report that she refused c-spine, and try to have someone else make a note of it as well

we did, the paramedics did, along with the cop.

 

[Capt.Hook]

The medics there, were they responding or "happening by"? Were they of your ALS service, off duty? In our area we can only go as far as the patient will allow. We are First Responders. FIRST AID! No life threats, conscious & alert & able to make decisions = able to sign the release.

One would weigh if the fall was warranted for the collar and board before "forcing" it (I am sure you didn't "force"!). I try to feel the medics for the best avenue of travel, usually.

More or less, I feel you, as FR, are covered against suit.

 

[CFRBryan347768]

Medics in my area are our ALS service and BLS are all EMT-B minimum, and yes the medics were responding.

 

[Capt.Hook]

So if the medics that were already there were dispatched to your call, the patient care falls onto them, with your assistance, correct? You are not liable. Your paperwork should write as such.

 

[CFRBryan347768]

So if the medics that were already there were dispatched to your call, the patient care falls onto them, with your assistance, correct? You are not liable. Your paperwork should write as such.

every one is liable i believe, but when we got there the medics were just standing talkting to her. we went BLS to the hospital, and besides people are sue crazy here

 

[pa8109]

I am always cautious about calls like these. My suggestion is to document, document, document. I didn't read that you asked your pt to sign a refusal form, which I would recommend if a similar situation arises again. There have been quite a few instances where my pts have either refused appropriate treatment (i.e. full spinal immobilization) or transport to the most appropriate facility (i.e. facility capable of heart catheterization). They must, as all pts who refuse treatment and/or transport, be fully capable of making informed decisons about their healthcare, be free of mind altering substances, be a legal adult, be informed of and fully understand all risks involved (i.e. serious injury or death), etc. I get a funny look from some pts and even providers when I ask them to sign a refusal, because many people believe refusals are just for pts who refuse all treatment and transport. I will not lose my certification because someone is too foolish, stubborn, etc, to go against the advice of a healthcare provider. In this sue happy world, without a signed form stating they refused appropriate treatment/transport, it's really their word against yours. Yes some may say its ok because other providers were on scene, but when the case hits the courts several years down the road, who's to say they will remember all the specifics about the call?

 

[CFRBryan347768]

very true, she did sign the correct paperwork.

 

[Capt.Hook]

I will absolutely agree everyone is liable, to an extent. If the medics there transported, they are ultimately responsible for care. You need to satisfy your protocols, but ultimately their (transporting agency) care trumps yours. That only applies to calls that their arrival precede your own, or they have command. I feel our (FR) care takes us directly up to a pt. loaded and our parework handed over. Everything before that, if we arrive first is, for the most part, of great concern to us.

That said, as said prior, documentation is simple and crucial. A medics care will determine yours, and paperwork is the proof.

 

[Capt.Hook]

I may be missing something. Are you a FR riding with a BLS, or do you have ALS or BLS responding to your calls? If you ride and transport, my responses do not apply to that situation.

 

[CFRBryan347768]

here medics can not transport, they just have an suv loaded with their ALS stuff, bu i understand what your saying.

 

[AZFF/EMT]

Write something to the extent of..... in your narrative "patient_______________ refused c-spine precautions, and was advised of the risks of refusing" Have the patient sign and rint there name.

 

[Outbac1]

You're never off the hook until the judge says so. However, properly documented paperwork with i's dotted and t's crossed makes it easier for the judge to say so.

I wouldn't worry about it. If I worried about every pt and what they might do, I couldn't get out of bed in the morning. Mind you Canada isn't quite as sue happy as the USA, but we are working on it.