Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in Cardiac Bypass

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Lifeguards For Life

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Background:
Intercessory prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, but claims of benefits are not supported by well-controlled clinical trials. Prior studies have not addressed whether prayer itself or knowledge/certainty that prayer is being provided may influence outcome. We evaluated whether (1) receiving intercessory prayer or (2) being certain of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with uncomplicated recovery after coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) surgery.

Methods:
Patients at 6 US hospitals were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 groups: 604 received intercessory prayer after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; 597 did not receive intercessory prayer also after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; and 601 received intercessory prayer after being informed they would receive prayer. Intercessory prayer was provided for 14 days, starting the night before CABG. The primary outcome was presence of any complication within 30 days of CABG. Secondary outcomes were any major event and mortality.

Results:
In the 2 groups uncertain about receiving intercessory prayer, complications occurred in 52% (315/604) of patients who received intercessory prayer versus 51% (304/597) of those who did not (relative risk 1.02, 95% CI 0.92-1.15). Complications occurred in 59% (352/601) of patients certain of receiving intercessory prayer compared with the 52% (315/604) of those uncertain of receiving intercessory prayer (relative risk 1.14, 95% CI 1.02-1.28). Major events and 30-day mortality were similar across the 3 groups.

Conclusions:
Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.
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full article here: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/529308
 
emotional and psychological effect?

Definitely need to see more results, those confidence intervals are large.

But interesting, however slightly pointless if, "Major events and 30-day mortality were similar across the 3 groups."
 
Prayer to the all knowing, ever present and perfect god...what does this say?

Please change your mind Sir, you were wrong, you don't know everything, you made a mistake. Please take away Johnny's cancer, as this could not possibly be part of the plan because it affects me on a much too personal level.

I will get everyone I know to pray and together we will be loud enough for you to hear us and to change your mind. And if it works, we will praise you, if it doesn't we will say it was your will. (This is called counting the hits and ignoring the misses).

Talk about forcing your will on someone, grouping in large numbers and bullying the big guy in the sky to change his mind...maybe, just maybe it is MAN that is in control as he has the Power of Prayer to make things happen. :)
 
akflightmedic said:
Prayer to the all knowing, ever present and perfect god...what does this say?

Please change your mind Sir, you were wrong, you don't know everything, you made a mistake. Please take away Johnny's cancer, as this could not possibly be part of the plan because it affects me on a much too personal level.

I will get everyone I know to pray and together we will be loud enough for you to hear us and to change your mind. And if it works, we will praise you, if it doesn't we will say it was your will. (This is called counting the hits and ignoring the misses).

Talk about forcing your will on someone, grouping in large numbers and bullying the big guy in the sky to change his mind...maybe, just maybe it is MAN that is in control as he has the Power of Prayer to make things happen. :)
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Amen brother
 
who approved people to waste money on such shyte? :rolleyes:

science vs religion is not a good idea

philosophy brown away ..... :ph34r:
 
The study was focused on complications that arose while paryers were being conducted.

Any Christian can tell you... even though "complications" may arise... in the end it's "God's Plan". Maybe the complications will change something in someones life. Only God will know!
 
Yep, their prayer works so well that they are not persecuted by the millions in the past and thousands of today. Nor do they have war, turmoil or any land issues.

It's good that prayer thing is working...
 
akflightmedic said:
Yep, their prayer works so well that they are not persecuted by the millions in the past and thousands of today. Nor do they have war, turmoil or any land issues.

It's good that prayer thing is working...
Click to expand...

But they have a country out of nothing........
Israel is one of the most highly educated countries in the world with the highest number of engineers, scientists and Ph.D's per capita (135 per 10,000).
» Israel has the largest number of startup companies, in absolute terms, than any other country in the world, save the US (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).
» Israel is the only country in the world to have simultaneous free trade agreements with the US, Mexico and Canada; European Union and European Free Trade Association.
» More Israeli companies are on the US stock exchanges (123) after the US and Canada, with market capitalization of over $33 billion, with two companies included in the S&P 500.
» Israel is ranked #2 in the world for VC funds right behind the US. There is over $4 billion available for investments.
» The per capita income in 2000 is over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.
» Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined.
» Israel is one of the most secure countries in the world with which to do business. English is the official business language.
» The cell phone was developed in Israel by Motorola-Israel. Motorola built its largest development center worldwide in Israel.
» Windows NT software was developed by Microsoft-Israel.
» The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel.
» Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.
» The first PC anti-virus was developed in Israel in 1979 by the same company that developed the Melissa anti-virus program.
» The world's most predominant company in internet firewall safety systems is Check Point, an Israeli company that controls 40% of the world's market.
» AOL's instant message program was designed by an Israeli software company.
» Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.
» Foreign entities invested more than $3 billion in the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange, over 5% of the total market value of stocks traded on the TASE.
» The credit rating assigned by Moody's for 2000 is A, and its short-term credit rating is P1, their highest rating available for short-term credit.


http://www.ohioisraelchamber.com/membership/israel_facts.htm

So we cannot say they are stupid......Nor can we say that they are unsuccessfull. lets just look at how many countrys have a 100 year track history like them ? One thing I can promise you is that prayer works.
 
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I smell troll but ok, I will play.

So all these great things tells me they pray for wealth and success???

Why not pray for peace and illness/suffering to end?

Prayer works or do you only count the hits while cheerfully ignoring the misses?

Prove prayer works...I would like a million dollars...obviously I can wish..err I mean pray for these things because all your proof says they did.

If that is too much of a request, please pray for war to end now...
 
akflightmedic said:
I smell troll but ok, I will play.

So all these great things tells me they pray for wealth and success???

Why not pray for peace and illness/suffering to end?

Prayer works or do you only count the hits while cheerfully ignoring the misses?

Prove prayer works...I would like a million dollars...obviously I can wish..err I mean pray for these things because all your proof says they did.

If that is too much of a request, please pray for war to end now...
Click to expand...

If your not sure it is troll you smell. get a whiff of the infant BLS thread
 
Conclusions:
Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.
Click to expand...
That's because the guys who prayed weren't of the only right religion:P
 
The Test was FLAWED in its conception

Okay, so picture this...

You are sick. You've got heart trouble. You suspect you may be knocking on death's door, but Thank God! denial is keeping you safe from the full impact of your condition.

Then, some clown comes to your bed side. He says, "We're going to have three dump truck loads of people praying for you!"

Really, that's information I don't want to know, it's something I don't want to hear 'cause if people pray for my butt, that tells me I'm in worse shape than I thought and then I'LL start worrying!

Personally, I have witnessed spiritual healings of terminal diseases. Prayer was a part of it. I know how it works. But this feels so scientific it dooms itself to failure.

The people are being let in to the process as data, not human participants in their own recovery. There's no curve to measure belief, and it's quite possible the 59% just didn't believe too strongly in prayer themselves so, of course it wouldn't take. They are looking to measure the human element in an arena where cause and effect play by different rules.

Science means nothing to the Great Mystery because science is always evolving while the Great Mystery just IS.
 
Why do I get the feeling that this thread has numbered days? (Or hours....)

The way I see it is this: Every beleif system out there thinks it is right. Christians, Muslims, Hindus, New Agers, Athiests, etc. all think that they are correct and because of that will try to bring others about to their way of thinking. What is the differance between a Christain saying that there is only one "true" relegion, a Muslim saying that their god is the only "real" one, and an Athiest saying that there is no god. You cannot "force" beleifs onto people. It is just as wrong for a Muslim to force his relegion on a Hindu and it is for the Hindu to force his on the Muslim. It is also just as insane for an Athiest to get all flustered when a Christian says that Christianity is the only real relegion as it would be for a Christian to get all upset when someone denies the existance of the Christain god. Everyone out there is entitled to their own beleif regarding this stuff. (Well, regarding everything actually.)

And if people would not take it as a personal attack when someone else critiscises their beleif system the world would be a much better place. Besides nobody makes their way of thinking look more attractive by getting all angry and sarcastic when challenged. If you beleive it, defend it civilly. And keep an open mind, who knows maybe you are wrong and the other guy is right. There is that possibility, however remote.

Of course if I get into a discussion with you I will try to make you see why I think I am right, just as you will. But there is no need to turn what could be a productive discussion into an online slugging match via keyboard.

Personally I think that this whole "intercessory prayer" study thing is kind of pointless. It is my opinion that for prayer to work it has to come from your heart and not at the command of some research analyst. That is why I beleive that the results were almost the same (taking into account the error margin you get in these things) in all three groups. I mean, they are within 6 points of each other.......

But I could be wrong.:P
 
im gonna pass this one off to my wife for her opinion . she is an ordained anglican priest and ive heard her preach on this kind of topic before hope fully she will provide an interesting view from a clergy view point.
 
so do prayers of a certain relgion work more often than not? I will join the religion that works best.
 
That's the great thing about it...

if you ask the followers, they all work the best!

It's a Festivus miracle...

Now it's time for the feats of strength.

John E
 
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