Rural/Metro-Pridemark Union

[sir.shocksalot]

This thread is mostly for current employees of Rural/Metro-Pridemark that might be lurkers or simply browsing through the forum. I want to first out myself as an employee of Rural/Metro-Pridemark, if you know me in real life a little browsing through my post history and you'll know who I am. Second, I want to recommend to all employees who might be reading this to seriously consider their vote to go for NEMSA in this upcoming union election.

I understand the hesitation to pay union dues, and I've heard all the negative stuff about unions both in EMS and in the news. The reality of our employment situation is such that we have absolutely no recourse to actions taken by Rural/Metro management. GT employees can still be taken off their shift and told to drive to the other side of the Denver-Metro area without any compensation for travel time or distance. Aurora employees can be forced to run calls for 24 hours straight with EMTs making a pitiful $7.64/hr. Aurora employees are often employed at the will of the fire department and any disagreement or argument with AFD can result in your immediate termination. Arvarda employees may soon be in the same boat, if they don't get laid off when that contract goes away (I don't want to be a fear-mongerer here so I will admit that Rural/Metro will most likely not fire anyone, but it's definitely not guaranteed).

A union can protect you from the favoritism and headhunting that is routine for management. A good example of this would be employees who are in all respects very capable, hard working employees who get a 2% raise for the year when I, a lazy and bitter paramedic, get a 3% raise. And this particular employee who got a 2% raise deserved a 5% raise (or more), but for absolutely no reason s/he got less than the standard and no argument made by anyone could change the decision made by a single supervisor.

I am not going to pretend it'll all be rainbows and gumdrops. There is a chance a union won't change anything. There are definite downsides to a union, like dues and the whole political nonsense that comes with stewards and the like. But anyone who was with either company before the merger is fully aware that both companies were far better before then they are now. Management is starting to look at us as little money making minions, when before we were members of a team. Do some research, make an informed decision before you cast your vote.

If members can please post your experiences with a union, both good and bad. Please don't spout off rumors or hearsay. I would like our employees that wander over here to get a honest opinion from those that currently have a union. Also understand that management teams and union leadership differ from area to area, so incompetent union leaders or compassionate management will both have effects on what a union can do for a company.

 

[Veneficus]

I have belonged to 2 seperate unions in my career.

A union can be great, horrible, or anything in between.

What will make a union good or bad is the dedication of the employees to it.

If you have a union of apathetic employees all it will do is waste your money.

In order for management to want to negotiate, you will have to be ready to walk off the job.

As it stands, in EMS there are far more people wanting that job than employers.

I can see that if you vote in a union, especially with a company like RM, once you elect leaders, prior to a contract negotiation, these "leaders" and their supporters will simply be terminated.

You must also research if you work in an "at will" employment State. (I am too lazy to do this for you) this is basically anti-union legislation that will supercede any contract you negotiate.

With a weak union, you will not have the resources to refute challenges to this contract in court.

Firing a few employees, while it may cost to train some new ones, and will slightly reduce efficency in the short term, the financial impact on RM will be minimal. Far different from all 911 and transport coming to an abrupt halt or having to send in employees from other areas.

You must also consider the example of favoritism. A union will not make sure the guy who deserves a 5% raise gets it. It will make sure everyone gets the same raise. Which means the guy who deserves 5% will probably get 2% and the guy who deserves to lose his job because he does the absolute minimum will get 2% too.

Don't trust people when they say "we will do what it takes." Look at their realistic situation. Can they afford to stop work or lose their job? Are jobs in the area readily available if they were to? Do these people have the ability to relocate to another job?

If they cannot, your union is not going to work.

On the benefits of unions.

It will be damn near impossible to get fired. Which if you are on the chopping block is definately good.

You cannot be forced to do something that would cost you money in order to keep your job. (like commuting to a distant location or buying your own safety gear)

Benefits usually imporove.

Breaks are strictly observed with financial penalties on the employer for not observing them which encourages them to.

If conditions are so bad, you actually might be better off leaving for somewhere else than forming a union. If however, you are stuck in the area, if I was going to form a union I would make sure of some very important things.

1. The union doesn't have a competing interest.
In the past more than a few EMS only operations unionized as IAFF locals. When the local FDs decided to take over EMS operations in these areas, guess which dues paying members were left holding the bag?

The IAFF totally abandoned the EMS locals if you didn't guess. (without a refund)

2. I would go with a traditionally powerful national union, like the teamsters. Especially since they can relate to what you actually do. If you get into a union of such as AFSCME, which encompases many different types of labor forces, the guys (and gals) over at the local county garage may not support you when the time comes because they have no complaints themselves.

3. Get political support first. Prospective union leaders should have already met with local labor leaders and politicians to discuss and gain outside allied support prior to starting a union. City councils, mayors, law directors, etc are going to make or break any attempt at unionization.

Public support for unions is low. Public support for emergency workers in also diminishing. (very predictable, it always had high and low periods)

Feel free to PM if you want to discuss this further somewhere your employer cannot read it.

 

[Trashtruck]

I am in a union. I don't know about all of the politics involved and whatnot(I do, but not enough to give any sort of credible info. on here about it) but I do know that I'm better off with it than without it. It is damn near impossible to get fired, and even if you are fired, you get hired back(it's actually kind of pathetic. It's more like getting fired to show that people do get fired, then giving you your job back) Job security is No.1 these days. I'm in an at will state which means, without my union, I could be fired today for no reason or without any warning. Scary. Also, should you get in trouble, they have your back through the disciplinary process, provide lawyers, representatives, etc. so the ring leaders don't trample all over you.
Union dues are miniscule. The benefits/pay/retirement I receive are unparalleled, or, at least, in the very top tier. If I had to pay out of pocket for them, I'd barely receive a paycheck.
So, I'm all for them. Keep in mind, this is purely subjective. I've only been in one union and this one is all I know.

 

[Medic Tim]

I am in a union. I don't know about all of the politics involved and whatnot(I do, but not enough to give any sort of credible info. on here about it) but I do know that I'm better off with it than without it. It is damn near impossible to get fired, and even if you are fired, you get hired back(it's actually kind of pathetic. It's more like getting fired to show that people do get fired, then giving you your job back) Job security is No.1 these days. I'm in an at will state which means, without my union, I could be fired today for no reason or without any warning. Scary. Also, should you get in trouble, they have your back through the disciplinary process, provide lawyers, representatives, etc. so the ring leaders don't trample all over you.
Union dues are miniscule. The benefits/pay/retirement I receive are unparalleled, or, at least, in the very top tier. If I had to pay out of pocket for them, I'd barely receive a paycheck.
So, I'm all for them. Keep in mind, this is purely subjective. I've only been in one union and this one is all I know.

Agreed. As much as I hate being judged by the lowest common denominator without our union I can't imagine how much worse it would be. The major issue with our union is we are lumped in with all the hospital workers. We (medics) make up maybe 15 of the voting population. We are on the highest pay scale and it leads to resentment from other sub locals. It also does little to address ems specific items in the cba.

 

[coloradochick]

Go for it!

Workers are the union and anyone who doesn't understand that is clueless. When I learned that a RM EMT in NY state is only making ten bucks and some change per hour, I wondered where the heck is his union? I've been a union member and activist and everyone should have fair pay and decent working conditions. For me, this is a no-brainer! -_-

 

[looker]

The only thing that union does is cost company money by demanding different thing. Basically union get in a way. If employee don't like their job they should find another job.

 

[looker]

Workers are the union and anyone who doesn't understand that is clueless. When I learned that a RM EMT in NY state is only making ten bucks and some change per hour, I wondered where the heck is his union? I've been a union member and activist and everyone should have fair pay and decent working conditions. For me, this is a no-brainer! -_-

What skills as emt that you have that makes you so valuable that you are worth more than $10 an hour? You do understand that it's supply and demand?

 

[sir.shocksalot]

The only thing that union does is cost company money by demanding different thing. Basically union get in a way. If employee don't like their job they should find another job.

Employees deserve to have safe and pleasant work conditions. If an employer is unwilling to pay the little bit to make work conditions acceptable for employees then a union is necessary to force an employer to provide safe and equitable working conditions. Happy employees don't form unions.

What skills as emt that you have that makes you so valuable that you are worth more than $10 an hour? You do understand that it's supply and demand?

This is a completely separate topic with numerous threads addressing it. This thread is soliciting people's opinions on unions in their workplace so employees of Rural/Metro-Pridemark can make an informed decision. Lets try to stick to the topic at hand.

The election was held about two weeks ago and the results are pending.

 

[Veneficus]

The only thing that union does is cost company money by demanding different thing. Basically union get in a way. If employee don't like their job they should find another job.

I agree with your statement here.

However, I would like to point out that while the purpose of a company is to fulfill a need and make money doing it, taking advantage of and basically costing employees moeny by making them buy their own safety equipment, not being reimbursed for missed breaks required by national labor laws, etc, is the mark of adisreputable employer who is not equitably fulfilling a need, but actually ripping people off to take as much as possible.

While there is broad political support for doing the later by both parties, such practices are not good for the economy, business community, and community at large.

If you destroy the community who pays you for meeting their needs, then their needs change or go away, and that will definately impact the business owner.

Tell me, how many ambulance companies donate money to their communities?

How many banks do?

How many factories?

Car dealerships?

Food places?

When was the las time you saw EMS collecting for burned children at a counter?

When was the last time you saw EMS workers filling a boot?

When was the last time you saw a private ambulnce company present a cheque (take special note of that spelling) to the united way or disaster victims?

But you see ambulance companies all the time try to squeeze every penny out of medicare/medicade for service they honestly should not be paid for or line up to bid on hurricane relief.

If a business acts like a scammer to their employees and community, they should expect to be scammed as well by a union or contract demand.

I am very wary of unions, I have received disproportionately less in benefits than I have paid for membership.

But I also agree a reputable business has nothing to fear from a union.

 

[looker]

If company is violating the law by not providing industry standard safety equipment, giving proper breaks or reimbursing for it then book should be thrown at them by either labor department or local ems agency. However I find that unions tend to start demand pay increase every time contract is up for negotiation, they refuse to contribute more to health insurance even if premiums went up 30% over last couple of years. It's becomes hard to nearly impossible to fire bad employee without jumping through hoops.

 

[Veneficus]

If company is violating the law by not providing industry standard safety equipment, giving proper breaks or reimbursing for it then book should be thrown at them by either labor department or local ems agency. However I find that unions tend to start demand pay increase every time contract is up for negotiation, they refuse to contribute more to health insurance even if premiums went up 30% over last couple of years. It's becomes hard to nearly impossible to fire bad employee without jumping through hoops.

I agree on all accounts.

However, there is lack of enforcement from authorities and all too often the company uses legal council, often which employees cannot afford to, to avoid any real sanctions or penalties.

Unfortunately due to the large amount of this behavior on the part of corperations, a union becomes a required tool of protection from the employers.

Such is the reality on the ground despite lofty theorhetical legislation in government.