They don't stay stop and use your EMT skills or first aid or anything like that. They are simply saying stop so that they can dispatch the call appropriately.
Rollover on Freeway off-duty.
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They don't stay stop and use your EMT skills or first aid or anything like that. They are simply saying stop so that they can dispatch the call appropriately.
Foxbat
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I did not say anything about using skills, especially extrication OP was talking about. I don't see a reason to extricate pt. before rescue/EMS arrival unless he is apneic or the car is on fire.
My point was that "don't stop at accidents at all" principle is debatable.
Sasha
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Careful! Even if the car is on fire and it's your best friend, they can still sue you and win!
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Couple points of order. I think you are referring to the recent California case whereby the courts have allowed a suit against a Good Samaritan to proceed. However, in this case, the Good Samaritan believed the car would burst into flames when in fact the car was not on fire at all. From what I can tell, the case is still pending.
BossyCow
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I heard they found her guilty. She supposedly had enough training to know she shouldn't have moved the pt.
trevor1189
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Link to this case? I would definitely think that this would be covered under the good Samaritan law. :unsure:
This it? http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7013464272
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BossyCow
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The hitch in the Good Sam law is that you cannot act beyond your level of training. If you are beyond your scope of practice you are liable. What I heard about this case was that the woman had enough training that she should have been aware of the dangers and should not have moved the pt. EMS was on its way, there was no immediate threat and she panicked and did something stupid. There was also some reports of the pt asking her to wait for EMS.
In order to fall under the Good Sam law, you have to identify your level of training to the pt. You have to get consent (actual or implied). The real kicker is you have to do what a 'reasonable' person with your level of education and training would do in a similar circumstance.
In this case, what I heard was several of these pieces were missing. The woman allowed her own panic and fear to determine her actions, without evidence to support them, and while being told/asked to not do it.
The good sam law protects those who help. It was never its intention to protect the bulletproof stupid who damage others, make patients and scenes worse due to their idiocy.
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I can't find anything that says she is guilty in a civil trial. The ruling in December from the California Supreme Court just rules that she is not immune from civil liability under California's Good Samaritan law; therefore, a civil liability suit can now proceed. This ruling is highly controversial and the judges were split themselves with the ruling 4-3.
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That's it.
trevor1189
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Ok, thanks for the update there. She didn't really act beyond the scope of her practice she acted below it lol. She just freaked it sounds like. Also if she asked the woman not to do anything and didn't have consent, that is a whole different story then...
I would definitely like to hear how this whole thing pans out.
BossyCow
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Extrication done by someone only trained in first aid is acting beyond the scope of their education/training.
what kind of training did she have? i haven't seen anything that said she had any kind of medical training.
the problem is people see cars that wreck and blow up in the movies and think that it really happens
BossyCow
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first aid training.. an integral part of every FA class is when not to move the pt. Also covered is consent.
Here is the ruling from the first trial in the California Good Samaritan case.
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Ok... back on topic. The OP asked about off-duty response.
Some of us choose to stop, some of us choose to keep driving.
When I see a "fresh" MVA in my home area, as I run with multiple volunteer Fire/EMS agencies, I will usually stop.
I park on the far side of the scene, as far off of the road as I can get... pretty far, and put my 4-ways on. I walk back, find out IF there are injuries, and take it from there. If 911 has already been called, I will not call again. I wait for PD to arrive, wave hi, tell him there are no injuries, and keep going.
If medical assistance is needed, I usually end up doing nothing more than controlling the BASICS and perhaps end up holding C-spine. The 2 times in seven years I've done this have been in my home territory, so it is "my crew" that is coming as the BLS and/or Fire... there are no problems, and I don't take major risks. This is somewhat common with our local volunteers.
Out of state? Away from home? I'll probably keep going unless I witness the wreck.
Some of us choose to stop, some of us choose to keep driving.
When I see a "fresh" MVA in my home area, as I run with multiple volunteer Fire/EMS agencies, I will usually stop.
I park on the far side of the scene, as far off of the road as I can get... pretty far, and put my 4-ways on. I walk back, find out IF there are injuries, and take it from there. If 911 has already been called, I will not call again. I wait for PD to arrive, wave hi, tell him there are no injuries, and keep going.
If medical assistance is needed, I usually end up doing nothing more than controlling the BASICS and perhaps end up holding C-spine. The 2 times in seven years I've done this have been in my home territory, so it is "my crew" that is coming as the BLS and/or Fire... there are no problems, and I don't take major risks. This is somewhat common with our local volunteers.
Out of state? Away from home? I'll probably keep going unless I witness the wreck.
IF its a wreck that looks like I could actually make a difference in the outcome, IE, work to my skill level and maintain an unstable airway, spinal injury, etc. then I would probably find it hard to justify it to myself not to stop. But my safety is first, busy roads are no place to be wandering around asking if people in a fender bender are ok.
I am sure as hell not taking anyone out of a car, even if they are upside down. I don't know how anyone can keep a spine stable while removing a patient in a upside down car without other trained professionals and a spinal board. If the person is wearing their seatbelt gravity is going to take hold when you release them and well, there they will be. I like my cert, thank you.
IF I witnessed an accident, I would stop only if safe, ask if everyone was ok, call 911 to update if life threatening injuries were present, and wait for the cops to make my report. Then its back on the road. No fussing with EMS, most services around here couldn't care less that you have medical training, anyone helping at a wreck not in a uniform is assumed an idiot.
I am sure as hell not taking anyone out of a car, even if they are upside down. I don't know how anyone can keep a spine stable while removing a patient in a upside down car without other trained professionals and a spinal board. If the person is wearing their seatbelt gravity is going to take hold when you release them and well, there they will be. I like my cert, thank you.
IF I witnessed an accident, I would stop only if safe, ask if everyone was ok, call 911 to update if life threatening injuries were present, and wait for the cops to make my report. Then its back on the road. No fussing with EMS, most services around here couldn't care less that you have medical training, anyone helping at a wreck not in a uniform is assumed an idiot.