Responding in Personal Vehicles

[EMTWintz]

I am just wondering how many depts out there allow members to show up to scenes in their personal vehicle? We are strickly volunteer squad. We have a total of 6 members and it never fails that when a call comes in we get at least 2 people to show up at station to roll, then all the rest show up in PV's. I understand that in a small town the urge to make every call is huge, but the way I see it, if you can't make it to the station in time to make truck you just don't get to go! Is my outlook on this issue wrong?

 

[mikie]

We did...

Now I'm just going to forward you of what's to come ahead...

You'll be asked to have searched first, then there will be some members who will say how great it is, how bad it is, how i'm better than you, visa versa.

Whereas me, I'll just answer straight up. We were permitted to respond to the station. Once we had a sufficient enough crew, we would roll (then once more showed up, a second truck would roll, depending on the call).

 

[traumateam1]

Is my outlook on this issue wrong?

NO! Your outlook on this issue is not wrong. I agree that if you don't make it in time for your call than you don't go. I am surprised that you don't have shifts. So lets say, If John, Sue, Bill, and Michelle are volunteers. John and Sue are A shift and Bill and Michelle are B shift. If A shift gets paged out then the B shift gets put on standby. If anyone from A shift can't make it then B shift is called out.
I dunno if that made sense or not, but I don't think that an ambo and 4 POV's showing up on a scene looks professional. (Unless dispatch called for 6 volunteers to respond - major MVA, MCI, etc)
I know for our fire dept. if there is a major fire and they call in the volunteers than they respond in their POV's to the scene.. but I'll be honest, I don't know the lights and sirens rules/laws in BC for volunteer F/F's responding in POV's

 

[EMTWintz]

No we don't have shifts because there may be days that only 1 or 2 people are in town and then there are days that everyone is here. Like most of the members have day jobs, so it is not a problem then, the problem comes after normal work hours. Then everyone is tryin' to be johnny on the spot! There can be times when there are all 6 people in a small house for a person who is "feeling Ill" to me there is no need to have any more than 3 people on scene. If more personell are needed we can call into dispatch and have the page out for extra persons to respond!!!! It gets crazy enough when you have family there without adding another 6 people in a cramped hallway!!!

 

[traumateam1]

I agree with you 110%. How unprofessional would that be. 6 medics showing up for a general C/C of "I don't feel well." I'm thinking you should bring this up at a meeting or talk to your Unit Chief/Supervisor because unless the 4 (or more) are needed than there should be no reason to respond.
We aren't a volunteer company here, however we always have 1 car maned 24/7. Then our second car is either at the stn. (if a busy night) or they will have their pagers on at home and if Alpha goes out Bravo will come in to the stn. Then we have a transfer/back up car on pager standby. I understand that in a volunteer company there is no need to have a car maned 24/7.. but I'm thinking shifts might come in handy for when you have 6 people wanting to show up to a call that doesn't need anything more than a driver and attendant.
I'm sure someone will come on here and tear apart my idea.. but if I was running a volunteer 9-11 contracted EMS company then there would always be shifts, and only responding to calls in POV's if absolutely necessary. i.e more person(s) needed on scene.

 

[EMTWintz]

Well it never fails that you will have at least one (sometimes more) person standing around with their thumbs up their ... looking stupid. To me that is soooo unprofessional

 

[kayrules5340]

I'm sure someone will come on here and tear apart my idea.. but if I was running a volunteer 9-11 contracted EMS company then there would always be shifts, and only responding to calls in POV's if absolutely necessary. i.e more person(s) needed on scene.

I think that is a great idea trauma.....One of my teammates got injured at a hockey game and in addition to the medic and 2 emts that came in the ambulance, 3 other emt's and one explorer came in their POV's and to me that was so unprofessional because they all were just kind of standing there, there was 7 people, and only 3 who really had anything to do.

 

[mikie]

What about traffic when responding to the scenes?

If you have all of these unmarked POVs, couldn't that create a traffic problem? Do you have warning lights or other forms of reflective material to keep everyone safe?

 

[BossyCow]

There are ways to deal with the issues of too many people responding, traffic, cars, parking. In a rural area, its necessary to have volunteers respond POV. But you don't drive past a station on the way to a call without picking up a rig.

We coordinate by radio about who's responding, how many are enroute. We sometimes stop and pick up a volunteer who's is between the station and a call. It would be lovely to have the coverage or the manpower to do shifts, or have certain people who respond on certain days etc. But that is just not a reality of most of the rural volly units.

For instance, if a call comes in and its on the western half of the district, I can probably be there in less than 5 minutes. I can do an intial assessment, get ALS enroute if needed, or call off responding units if nobody needs lifting and there's already sufficient personnel on their way. Or we can wait for someone to get to the station, pick up a rig and respond in about 12 - 15 minutes. That's a long time to wait for a pt who needs ALS from 30 miles away.

Having plans in place and protocols to follow help reduce the onscene appearance of the cameo-role volunteer who's just there to get their name on the roster.

 

[mikie]

We coordinate by radio about who's responding, how many are enroute.

So you all have personal (departmental?) radios? I have seen threads (ultimately debates) elsewhere that posed the questions should volunteers (regardless of responding to the station or scene should be issued radios as opposed to pagers)..........maybe it was this fourm :unsure: )

 

[KEVD18]

i quit. i cant do this again.

 

[EMTWintz]

What about traffic when responding to the scenes?

If you have all of these unmarked POVs, couldn't that create a traffic problem? Do you have warning lights or other forms of reflective material to keep everyone safe?

Most of us run blue lights, but that is the thing I am most worried about. Especially on the interstate. I mean we have the FD roll on those accidents but they can only make one side of Interstate safe and I never fails If the MVA in on South bound side north of the exit everyone will park on the northbound side when the action is on the southbound (understand that any?)

 

[BLSBoy]

Paging the dead horse to the forum. Dead horse, please respond forthwith.

First question to the OP.
What is your call volume?
Second question.
Are your "responding members" a minimum of EMT, and if using emergency equipment, EVOC certified?

 

[traumateam1]

i quit. i cant do this again.

Aww c'mon. No one likes a quitter!^_^

 

[Epi-do]

Paging the dead horse to the forum. Dead horse, please respond forthwith.

Just for you.....

 

[BossyCow]

Actually I think there are different points being raised here. Its a valid thread. He's not doing the POV vs Rig debate but trying to address some specific concerns about the mechanics of how different agencies implement the procedures they have chosen.

To answer your question about the pager vs radio, different systems have determined different policies. If the vollies are extra manpower, provding supplemental personnel to a paid department or a station that has shifts staffed on site, the policies are going to be very different from the more rural districts where staffing a station just isn't feasible.

In our agency, until you have completed a communications class, no radio, just a pager. We are toned out on a radio with the call address. Whoever is closest to the pt generally will respond directly to the scene. For example, a call yesterday. Call is in the middle of the district. There are two volunteers who live less than a mile from the call. The first responding vol. radios..'Dispatch... 406 responding to ...call address....' Second responding vol. knowing this is a weekday morning and less likely to have a bunch of vol.s responding radios "Dispatch, 4161 responding to Station 1" This lets everyone listening know that she's going to the station to get the ambulance. I'm pulling into the station, because I just happened to be driving past it when the tones went off. I know this volunteer lives on the same road as the call, so I radio.. "4161 from 403. Am arriving Station 1, what is your ETA?" She responds... "4161 divierting to the call address."

It ended up just being the three of us on scene. So, the two first on scene did pt care and transported the pt via the ambulance I drove to the scene to the hospital. I then drove the first vollies car back to the station, got a ride back to the scene and drove the second rig back to the station, put their keys inside the locked station, filled out the call log and then got into my car and drove home.

We do need communication between volunteers because of those types of scenarios which happen frequently. Our district is very spread out with limited roads through it.

My husband works in a paid department. In their system the volunteers are only given pagers. They are instructed to go to the station when they are toned out. They have a staging area within the station where they standby until directed to respond. No need for these volunteers to carry a radio. A pager is perfectly sufficient to their needs. So, is a radio or a pager best? Depends on the situation... same for the POV/Rig debate.. there isn't one solution for every situation.

 

[mikie]

^ That clears up a lot, thanks!

And I do agree that this thread is taking a different spin on the POV topic, unlike the ones that have indeed been 'beating a dead horse'

What kind of medical equipment do you carry? I would assume the basics, but I mean O2 and such...

Furthermore, I know someone mentioned it, but lets say you have an MVA at night, how would you handle that for scene safety?

 

[EMTWintz]

^ That clears up a lot, thanks!

And I do agree that this thread is taking a different spin on the POV topic, unlike the ones that have indeed been 'beating a dead horse'

What kind of medical equipment do you carry? I would assume the basics, but I mean O2 and such...

Furthermore, I know someone mentioned it, but lets say you have an MVA at night, how would you handle that for scene safety?

I did not mean to start something that has been "beat to death" here. I was just wondering(being new here) how different dept handled this issue. A background on my dept. There are just the 6 of us vollies. We provide BLS until the paramedics arrive from 7miles away. If you have 2-3 members there with the rig, and 3-4 more show in PV's that is just causing a road block. If there is ever an instance where only one person shows in rig and Jane Doe is only a house away and shows in PV why is that ok? Jane isn't going to have the supplies needed to handle BLS. I know I carry in my PV. BLS supplies to include. Steth n cuff, EKG (because of my job as mobile medical examiner) the typical dressings for bleeding control, baby ASA, splints n c-collar (one of each) but there are many calls in other towns where this is not enough to be first on scene in a PV

 

[mikie]

I did not mean to start something that has been "beat to death" here.

I don't think you did. I was however worried at the begining h34r: but it turned out to be a great discussion

 

[BossyCow]

If you have 2-3 members there with the rig, and 3-4 more show in PV's that is just causing a road block.

Absolutely it is. But, if you have 2 members and a rig and it's a code on a 380 pound, 6'4" guy, you may need the extras for lift and carry. In oiur district, its the responsibility of those responding to have unnecessary personnel stand down if there's more responding.

If there is ever an instance where only one person shows in rig and Jane Doe is only a house away and shows in PV why is that ok?

hmm so you have a rig on scene, with everything Jane is going to need when she gets there, you have a driver and Jane in the back with the pt. Does your ALS respond to the scene, or do you rendezvous with them enroute? Does ALS transport or do you?

In my district Jane would be on scene in her POV probably 5 - 10 minutes before the rig. We get spanked for calling ALS 'needlessly' so are supposed to wait until have personnel on scene before we do so. Jane going there directly speeds that up. We also have a 15 - 20 minute wait for ALS if its available at all.

Jane isn't going to have the supplies needed to handle BLS. I know I carry in my PV. BLS supplies to include. Steth n cuff, EKG (because of my job as mobile medical examiner) the typical dressings for bleeding control, baby ASA, splints n c-collar (one of each) but there are many calls in other towns where this is not enough to be first on scene in a PV

Reassuring the pt, establishing control of the scene, taking c-spine if needed, establishing and airway, controlling major bleeds, splinting possible fxs, all part of what we do while waiting for our rig to show up. Then we load and go and rendezvous with ALS enroute if needed.