Partner not backing me up.....

[MrBrown]

Well... the advantage of securing said router is that, being the person securing it, you are the only one who knows the password. It's more Bart Simpson than Ned Flanders.

Wouldn't that be against your Hippopotambous Oath?

 

[Veneficus]

Handy tip #371 - do not be in or around medicine when Brown graduates as that may change somewhat

Medicine has already survived bigger tools than you, but should things go amiss you'll already be wearing an orange jumpsuit.

Its like my neighbour, he doesnt deserve to have his wireless internet stolen but if he is silly enough to leave it unsecured it should be no suprise when he has it nicked.

yea, when i lost my "free" wireless internet somebody else was paying for I felt like I had been wronged.

like when a car thief gets his car stolen I guess.

 

[Veneficus]

Wouldn't that be against your Hippopotambous Oath?

The rules are more like guidelines

 

[CAOX3]

If this guy meets the criteria for being competent to refuse and he does so what's the hubbub, if he dies its his own fault.

In my experience the fear of being sued for abandonment or kidnapping is a trait found in new providers. I dont know how some function with this constant fear of litigation.

Dont get me wrong I have the best interest of all my patients in mind but I also am aware of their rights to refuse treatment.

Do you see doctors and nurses chasing patients out of the ER who sign out AMA?

If you have the ability to understand the risks you have the ability to weigh the options associated with those decisions. If you want to walk you walk.

Im not going to wake up the whole city, hospital, my medical director and supervisor to try to convince a person to go to the hospital who doesnt want to go, some people just dont want to go. Have it signed and witnessed and get on with it.

Usually it isnt that difficult to persuade them to go, other times they outright refuse and if they meet the criteria their on their way.

 

[Veneficus]

In my experience the fear of being sued for abandonment or kidnapping is a trait found in new providers. I dont know how some function with this constant fear of litigation.

Dont get me wrong I have the best interest of all my patients in mind but I also am aware of their rights to refuse treatment.

Do you see doctors and nurses chasing patients out of the ER who sign out AMA?

If you have the ability to understand the risks you have the ability to weigh the options associated with those decisions. If you want to walk you walk.

Im not going to wake up the whole city, hospital, my medical director and supervisor to try to convince a person to go to the hospital who doesnt want to go, some people just dont want to go. Have it signed and witnessed and get on with it.

Usually it isnt that difficult to persuade them to go, other times they outright refuse and if they meet the criteria their on their way.

I think what touched off the debate was who was doing the persuading, and the level of provider deciding nothing is wrong.

you know one of those mycroftt "five is four" discussions

I don't chase anyone. What would I do if I caught them? (always thinking ahead)

 

[Aidey]

In my experience the fear of being sued for abandonment or kidnapping is a trait found in new providers. I don't know how some function with this constant fear of litigation.

That may be true, but actually being sued can happen to any provider, so it is something we should all have in the back of our minds. I don't constantly fear litigation, but I do put things in the context of "How would I explain this to a lawyer"? If there isn't a good answer, I don't do it. Keeping that in mind also helps me slow down and make sure I am doing something right, and gives me the oomph I need sometimes to step in and be like "Hey, you're trying to intubate that guy with the tube upside down".

 

[ExpatMedic0]

Based on the information from the OP the pt. was symptomatic and also had an abnormally high b/p. They where a BLS rig with no monitor, not even a glucometer.... Its quite simple from a BLS perspective that the pt. needed further eval.

 

[Hellsbells]

Many people I know in LE are of the opinion that medics are more capable about making that decision than they are. However in all the places I have been, including places where the coroner doesn't have to be a doctor, the archaeic laws clearly give that power to LE, and make no mention of EMS having it.

I wouldn't say that it is an archaeic law, exactly. If EMS had the power to compel pts to go in against their will, what happens if they get physical and want to fight one of us? LEO's have the training and tools at hand to subdue pts if things go sideways. The same applies for Doctors in the ER, they write the order to detain a pt, but hospital security steps in if the pt steps out of line.

 

[Veneficus]

I wouldn't say that it is an archaeic law, exactly. If EMS had the power to compel pts to go in against their will, what happens if they get physical and want to fight one of us? LEO's have the training and tools at hand to subdue pts if things go sideways. The same applies for Doctors in the ER, they write the order to detain a pt, but hospital security steps in if the pt steps out of line.

???

I do not see how the legal authority to declare somebody unfit to make a decision about their medical care and transport in any way obligates the person making that decision to be the one who uses force to potentially enact that decision.

There are all kinds of medical conditions that can cause altered mental status and I would imagine that medical persons are much more capable of determining them than most law enforcement officials.

Just as you pointed out, having a physician evaluate the situation and write an order causes another party to enact such order. Why would there be any difference in the field. EMS decides the pt needs the hospital, LE carries that order out.

If LE is not on scene with you already and the patient wants to fight, then the scene is unsafe until such a time when they can be subdued as safely as possible. If there are 1 or 2 EMS persons trying to restrain a combative patient, there is a failure somewhere.