Medstar Flipping Off Sirens for Cardiac Arrest Patients

It's weird to me to hear about transporting L/S with a dead body... The way I was taught is that you work it on scene, not transport the arrest.
 
Some medical control physicians will not authorize death in the field...
and on a much more logistical level, the ambulance service can't bill if they don't transport...
 
jtpaintball70 said:
It's weird to me to hear about transporting L/S with a dead body... The way I was taught is that you work it on scene, not transport the arrest.
Click to expand...

+ 1 to you sir, I don't think we have ever transported a working cardiac arrest.
 
Here we transport every arrest unless livid,rigor, or injury incapable of life....every single one
 
Here if only a PCP crew is on scene, we still have to transport. But that's been more of an "in theory" protocol as we never seem to have trouble getting an ACP to the call before reaching the end of our protocol. (Came close once)

ACP's usually have no issue getting a TOR, though I've had to drive one in where the ACP didn't even request a TOR. Pt. had an awful A/W such that he didn't even attempt the intubation and I just dropped the king. Couldn't get a line that would stay patent anywhere. Pt. freshly dead in PEA. We were two blocks from the hospital so we loaded and went and called ahead for RT.

We also transport pediatric arrests and penetrating trauma VSA's.
 
Can you manually defibrillate/analyse as a PCP or do you take directions from the talking box? Our Ambulance Technician (90% of an NOCP PCP skills wise with 1/4 of the education) can interpret VF/VT on an ECG but not manually zap it.

Secondary arrest is a bit of a grey area things like certian tricyclics or other cardiotoxic medications, PEA from pericardial tamponade that can be relieved etc are examples where you should transport.

Primary arrests really shouldn't go to the hospital.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
emt.dan said:
Some medical control physicians will not authorize death in the field...
and on a much more logistical level, the ambulance service can't bill if they don't transport...
Click to expand...

MedStar actually works most of their arrest in the field, and try to keep it in the field if they can, and can do field termination. This is more for the patient that crashes while in transport or for a traumatic arrest, which they try to get to JPS asap.


Trust me, MedStar is pretty progressive in their protocols, and Dr Griswell is always trying for more.
 
Wonder how long it takes for this to pass over to the fireys next door in the BioTel system ... paging Dr Pepe, Dr Pepe please :P
 
Quite a while considering they just came out with their 2010 protocols when I was doing my internship, and we still transported my CPR l/s 10 miles.
 
Careflite

Careflite, in Dallas, Johnson County & Hill County Texas, has adopted this as well..Makes for a hellatious call when you have to sit for 15 minutes at stop lights thru Burleson & F.W...
 
Stephanie. said:
Careflite, in Dallas, Johnson County & Hill County Texas, has adopted this as well..Makes for a hellatious call when you have to sit for 15 minutes at stop lights thru Burleson & F.W...
Click to expand...

Do the crews still have discretion to use L&S to clear traffic? Here I can use them on even lower priority calls if I need to enter or exit traffic or if it's that congested.
 
emt.dan said:
Some medical control physicians will not authorize death in the field...
and on a much more logistical level, the ambulance service can't bill if they don't transport...
Click to expand...

Sure they can.. medicare/medicaid and private insurance will pay EMS for a treat no transport....

And even if they stopped doing that there is nothing to prevent them from still sending the patient a bill. They used EMS time and resources, they should get a bill unless its something simple like a lift assist or a no treatment no transport.

Codes, diabetes, etc, should all get billed for our services
 
Lights and sirens here are at provider discretion as is transporting cardiac arrests. I hate blanket policies.

Not everything is black and white.
 
No L&S

WolfmanHarris said:
Do the crews still have discretion to use L&S to clear traffic? Here I can use them on even lower priority calls if I need to enter or exit traffic or if it's that congested.
Click to expand...

On Priorty 1 calls they run L&S's but now full arrests are considered Priority 1... You don't run code.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top