Manual BP

LoneStarSoldier

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I had several calls where I needed to get the blood pressure of a patient using the BP cuff and a stethescope. However, on the majority of my patients (90% Geriatric) I just couldn't get a good reading. I attribute this somewhat to the noisy environment in the back of a moving ambulance but mostly to the fact that I'm rusty in this skill. Are there any tips anyone could share with me as to how to make this a little simpler for me? Also, I want to learn how to do it manually and I'm sure that the more I practice with people the better at it I'll get but is using one of the automated blood pressure devices acceptable or are they less accurate? Like I said, I want to learn how to get a good BP manually but when you need the BP you need the BP ASAP and until I get better at it the automated method may be better.
 
Practice.

Heck,k do a palpated BP if you have to.


If after plenty of practice you still can't auscultate a BP... buy a better steth.
 
Thanks, and what of the automated BP?
 
They have the ability to be wrong. I won't say "less accurate" because some people just suck, but like all technology it can be wrong. I've seen it give a bp of 120/80 on a can of soda...


Best practice is to do a manual, then use the automated cuff as a trending BP every few minutes. Compare your manual to the first automated one, then you can know if it's in the ballpark for the subsequent ones.
 
Taking a manual blood pressure v. an automated one (even though a manual blood pressure is still an non invasive blood pressure (NIBP), people usually write NIBP instead of automated) have their own pros and cons. Some people may say that you should take a manual blood pressure before using a NIBP to watch for trending, or they'll take a manual blood pressure to confirm what they got by NIBP, but in my opinion, it doesn't really matter. You should consider everything. If you get something way different from manual, or something way different from NIBP, you should consider that you're doing one of them wrong, not automatically assume that the manual blood pressure is right, which seems to be what most people assume.

I assume you already know the motion to do it even though you said you'd like to learn how to do it.

Things that help in my opinion is palpating the brachial pulse above the antecubital fossa (above the bend of the elbow), and place the diaphragm/bell of the stethoscope there.

I believe the AHA still recommends using the bell, the part people confused to be "the pedriatric side", of the stethoscope instead of the diaphragm. The bell is used for low pitch sounds like blood pressure and bowel sounds. The diaphragm is used for high pitch sounds like breath sounds.

In a moving vehicle, people have recommended putting your feet on the gurney, and don't let the patient rest their arm on the gaurd rail.

If you put the diaphragm/bell under the cuff, you might hear a lot of extraneous sounds side as the vehicle moving. It can also cause the patient unnecessary discomfort.

Also when you are listening, you could try closing your mouth. I think mycrofft mentioned that on another blood pressure post, and he was talking about how if you stick your fingers in your ears while your mouth is open, and then you closed it, you can feel it narrow. Dunno if he was just seeing if we would be dumb enough do it or not, haha! I think it makes sense. ^_^

I would link you to several other good blood pressure post, but my searching skills failed me. We had one massive one, but the problem is, trying to search "blood pressure" in EMTLife gives you just about every post, haha! We do have other good posts though so definitely search around. There was one really massive one that had a bunch of goodies in it that I think I mostly covered. One good one on how to do it, one one NIBP v. manual, and then JPINFV wrote a little thing that included about taking into consideration of what the machine says....

Good luck.
 
Oh, one more thing I can think of is with the gaurd rail part have the patient put their arm on your lap instead.
 
I believe the AHA still recommends using the bell, the part people confused to be "the pedriatric side", of the stethoscope instead of the diaphragm. The bell is used for low pitch sounds like blood pressure and bowel sounds. The diaphragm is used for high pitch sounds like breath sounds.

Wow this is the first I've heard of this. Can't wait to try it. It never occurred to me that BP would be a low pitch sound till I read this.
 
Well, I found some of those pages I was talking about for you.

http://emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=22749
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=22781

And the part that I felt that was relevant to this post is...

4 Phrases That Should Never Be Said on an Ambulance

1. Treat the patient, not the machine. With the exception of automated blood pressure cuffs (technically auscultation is a form of NIBP), essentially all of the machines EMS uses in our assessment are to give us information that we can’t otherwise obtain. You can’t look at a patient and see if they’re mildly hypoxic. You can’t look at a patient and see if they’re hypoglycemic. You can’t look at a patient and tell if they’re having a STEMI. I think it takes great hubris to say, “My history and physical is perfectly done and 100% correct every time.” As such, diagnostic tests shouldn’t be discarded simply because they disagree with our assessment. As one of the actual useful Ayn Rand quotes from Atlas Shrugged goes, “Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.” We need to troubleshoot both the test itself as well as our assessment. Did I miss something? Is there some preexisting condition that I’m missing? Am I assuming that there is only one new condition?
https://emtmedicalstudent.wordpress...es-that-should-never-be-said-on-an-ambulance/

The important part to me with the NIBP v. manual is the part I bolded (except the title). If you take a manual blood pressure and you take one by machine, and they are completely different, don't discard what the machine has to say. Maybe you're doing a manual incorrectly. :D Of course, it seems like this was aimed more at things like pulse ox, EKGs, etc, but I think it still applies.
 
I guess this comes from working in the ER but I'm a fan of doing it manual. The only time I dont do manual BP's,Pulse,SPO2,and Resp is during an emergency. To me it seems useless to to have someone hooked up to god and everything and everytime they need to pee having to unhook them.^_^
 
If you are having a difficult time hearing a manual BP in the back of a moving ambulance, remember this one option. The ambulance can always pull over.
 
I guess this comes from working in the ER but I'm a fan of doing it manual. The only time I dont do manual BP's,Pulse,SPO2,and Resp is during an emergency. To me it seems useless to to have someone hooked up to god and everything and everytime they need to pee having to unhook them.^_^

How do you do a manual spO2?
 
If you are having a difficult time hearing a manual BP in the back of a moving ambulance, remember this one option. The ambulance can always pull over.

That would be nice, but that's a no-go in my area. We don't delay transport for ANYTHING. By the time the patient is secured in the back of the ambulance and the driver is strapped in, has reported on the radio that we're en route to the receiving facility, and has recorded the times on the time sheet you should already have a BP, SPO2, Pulse, and be well into filling out your patient care form. Of course if the call isn't an emergency there can be a little deviation from this.
 
That would be nice, but that's a no-go in my area. We don't delay transport for ANYTHING. By the time the patient is secured in the back of the ambulance and the driver is strapped in, has reported on the radio that we're en route to the receiving facility, and has recorded the times on the time sheet you should already have a BP, SPO2, Pulse, and be well into filling out your patient care form. Of course if the call isn't an emergency there can be a little deviation from this.


So... in your area, proper care is less important than getting the patient to the hospital? Why don't you just call them a taxi instead of an ambulance, then?
 
sry its not manual its a little digital clip I put on the end of their finger. I call it "manual" because its not all hooked up to the monitor

So by your definition a wrist cuff could be considered manual?

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk
 
So... in your area, proper care is less important than getting the patient to the hospital? Why don't you just call them a taxi instead of an ambulance, then?

Well that's the whole point. You're 'supposed' to be able to do everything right WITHOUT delaying anything. More than likely this is more geared towards an emergency situation where every second counts.
 
So by your definition a wrist cuff could be considered manual?

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk

IMO no its not manual due to its digital and you slap it on and let it rip. The only reason I use the little digital SPO2 is because I have no other quick way to take SPO2. Ide rather not admit a avid drug seeker who has had 10 ER visits in the last month on the monitor.
 
IMO no its not manual due to its digital and you slap it on and let it rip. The only reason I use the little digital SPO2 is because I have no other quick way to take SPO2. Ide rather not admit a avid drug seeker who has had 10 ER visits in the last month on the monitor.

Wow...hope one of your drug seekers never presents with something that could cause them to code...
 
Well that's the whole point. You're 'supposed' to be able to do everything right WITHOUT delaying anything. More than likely this is more geared towards an emergency situation where every second counts.

The problem with the policy is that I would wager "every second counts" in less than 0.1% of a percent of cases.
 
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