Just A question

[Megs_h13]

I have read most of the threads and I have noticed that alot of you mention and exam that you guys in the States have to pass to be an EMT. I just wanna know how it works there. Here in Saskatchwen (Canada) you take the Primary Care Paramedic course and then you're sent out on your own to try and find a job. (it's not so easy here:unsure: ) I just wanna know what this exam is in case I decide to try for the States.

TTFN
Megs

 

[firecoins]

it is different state to state but in NY state:

You take a class to become an EMT-basic. The course is 150 hours. Afterwards, you are a basic EMT and can work on basic life support ambulance. You must find a job when done with the class.

The advanced EMT aka Paramedic is an asociated degree done over a year to 2 years depending on whether or not your an EMT when you begin. Afterwards, you must find your own job.

I just register for my EMT-B class here:
http://www.sunyrockland.edu/emtp/index.htm/?searchterm=paramedic

Obvioulsy I can go to be a medic here if I decide.

Here are the FAQs
http://www.sunyrockland.edu/emtp/faqs.htm

 

[Megs_h13]

Oh I get it, lucky American's you guys can go straight into Paramedic. Unlike here we have to be EMT's for at least two years before you can even think of becoming a Medic.

Just another question, there when you take to EMT course is it called Primary Care Paramedic?? Here we have Primary Care Paramedic, Intermediate Care Paramedic, and Advanced Care Paramedic, oh and Critical Care Paramedic.

 

[Epi-do]

I believe that some certification levels vary from state to state, but in Indiana we have EMT-B (basic), AEMT (advanced), EMT-I (intermediate), and EMT-P (medic). There aren't alot of AEMT's or EMT-I around though. The last I heard, they were talking about getting rid of the AEMT, and about the only place you will see an EMT-I is in the very rural areas of the state.

This link is a pdf file explaining the different certification levels in Indiana.

 

[KEVD18]

in ma theres

emt-basic
emt-intermediate
emt-paramedic

not too many i's. mostly b's and p's. must be a basic to go for medic. no specific time frame as far as the state is concerned, but some schools wont take you unless 1yr+ as a basic etc.

 

[Ridryder911]

Megs, you must be from Canada. Welcome to the site.

U.S. EMS educational system is much crappier than you guys have. Actually most EMT's are trained not educated here and do not require any other courses than what is presented in the EMT course. Your levels (which all are called some form of Paramedic) is much different than down here in the U.S.

We have 3 primary accepted levels, unfortunately we have flooded the systems with over 146 levels or different types of EMT's from trauma tech to IV tech, you name we have a level for it.

Our Basic EMT (entry level for most EMS) is anywhere from 2 weeks to 16 weeks long. It all depends on the institution teaching it. There are no official requirements (except for institutional or state/local) for entry level requirements, anyone with money can attend. Some states allow basics to perform limited advanced skills such as intubation and I.V's, but these are very few states.

Intermediate levels is another course ranging from two weeks to 16 weeks that usually cover airway, IV, trauma modules of the Paramedic curriculum. Some use a more advanced intermediate level that includes medication and cardiac interpretation. These of course are longer in duration.

Paramedic is the final or highest level. It can range from four months long to an associate degree. This is comparison to your Advanced Care Paramedic.

Our Critical Care Paramedic level is a joke. There is no "formal certification" for such. As long one has attended beyond the standard curriculum level of the Paramedic including IV medications, and documented critical education and skills, technically a service can implement the CCP level. Maryland has a critical care emergency medical transport program (CCEMT/P) formally critical care paramedic, that consists of approx 80 to 100 clock hours duration. But the only formal critical care paramedic test is the Certified Flight Paramedic test in the U.S.

Our system is need of repair, and definitely does not compare with your four year Critical Care Paramedic program. There is no requirement of fundamental sciences, advanced anatomy, chemistry, etc.. like yours. As well of course the pay here in U.S. compares with the education, crappy for most medics. Definitely, not the six figure salary which most of your Critical Care Paramedics are employed at.


Nice to have you here!

R/r 911
R/r 911

 

[Megs_h13]

Wow its really is different there. A PCP or as you know it EMT-B needs to be able to do what your EMT-I needs to know for the states. It's crazy to think that anyone with $$ can walk into being and EMT there. The course I took here was a year long and it took alot out of me, it didn't help that I have learning disabilities. At least there an EMT can specialise in many different things where as here we can only move up the food chain to becoming an ACP or Paramedic.

Thanks for all the input I enjoy learning how different places do their thing.

 

[KEVD18]

i would disagree with the statement that anyone with money can be a basic down here. anyone who can afford the tuition can go to school, but that in and of itself(atleast in ma) doesnt guarantee certification. in ma we have state examiners that have no association to a school. they work for the state. you have to get by them to get a ticket. now there are school taht will pass anybody. but not the examiners.....

 

[klogerg]

I have to agree that money alone doesnt gaurantee you can get a job. In MI, you can go to a school and take a EMT-B class, and mabye you pass it, meaning you are certified. however you must then take the NREMT written examination, as well as the State practical exam(MI has its own practical, saying that the national is too easy). Only after passing the written and practical can you apply to the state for a license. Now, in my personal opinion the test isnt that hard, but then again i put a lot of effort into studying and practicing for them. I'll agree with Ryder though that the system needs help. A national standard should be established. By the by, MI has Basic, Intermediate(or Specialist), and Paramedic.

 

[Ridryder911]

I did not state that if you have money, one will can become an EMT. Read the posts thoroughly. What I stated was anyone can enter an EMT program as long as they have the money. Very few programs require any entry level requirements.

In comparison to those to our friends up North. This is part of the problem of EMS and EMT programs. Open arms to allow anyone.. one does not even have a interest in EMS. In fact, I would describe the majority of EMT students that now enter EMT programs have no real desire to ever become an EMT. Majority enter to either to get hired onto a F.D. or step up into a another profession.

In comparison to any other health profession we have the lowest standards (actually none) to enter the class. One would think, (since our profession deals with death and dying and the most serious patients), we would be more selective. Again, it goes back to majority of programs consider the EMT basic in comparison to first-aid classes and no should be exempt from taking it.

I wished we would scrap our current system and follow the Canadian model. I doubt U.S. will ever go that forward, they much rather take whatever is the easiest and cheapest route. Being detailed and one having the knowledge is not as an important as flooding the market with non-employable EMT's. Compare our numbers of certified and licensed EMT's and those that actually work or provide any health care. It is estimated that less than 2-5% of those attend EMT classes ever go into EMS or health care.

Personally, I wished that we would require some basic entry level requirements like every other health profession. Entry would require to have at reading & comprehension level at least 14'th grade level, college level A & P, Psychology and college level math.

If you cannot read, then you cannot obtain the needed information to have the knowledge of the job. If one does not know what the parts are or how they work, how do you know what is broken or ill? Ever met a patient that did not have some form of emotional or psychological problem ? Even pain can give emotional and psychological attributes. Ask your Intermediate to figure an IV drip calculation without the use of a calculator or paper and pencil.

If we required entry level material we would at least know they have some science background and have a desire to work in this profession. Until, we care enough on whom can attend and then finish our profession, nothing will change.

R/r 911

 

[klogerg]

sorry, ryder, i didnt read your post as carefully as i thought. I do agree with you, there should be standards to get into the class. But then again, what do you do for people who academically may not be as adept as they should be, but have phenomenal skills, and are just as good with the patients. i understand your point, but i think this is why hiring procedures are so important, as well as FTO programs. Also, a basic EMT class is a great and relatively inexpensive way to get a toe into the medical field, or at least get a look at the field and see if whats you want to do.

 

[Ridryder911]

My solution is simple. Place them into first responder programs. Let them explore a portion of what EMS is and at the same time something they can have without a lot of time and money. EMT stands for technician, and with this it is considered a professional trade (volunteer or paid) and it holds responsibilities to the patient as being a member of the health profession (legally and litigiously).

Yes, skills are an essential and crucial part of the job. But, skills can be obtained by practice, review and continuation. In reality our skills is not that complicated in comparison to other professions. As a health care professional you are expected (as should be) to be held to academic levels, and have proficient skill level as well. This is why the profession is more difficult than others. We can not allow one or the other... I agree text book medics are worthless if they cannot perform, the same as skill medics who do not know how or properly misdiagnose but can perform the skill portion when instructed to. You cannot be half good in either one, again one must be proficient in both.

There are not many other professions that one can "jump" into. Not investigating prior to entering any profession is foolish. Even before entering a class or school. That is part of our problem.. sorry EMT school is easy to enter and easy to exit. There are many "health service career/occupations" courses designed to allow students to explore diverse health careers before investing and obligating time, dedication into a specific program. As well as career counselors, and basically discussing with career medics the good and the bad. I am sure many will misinterpet this, but consider how many in your class never went into EMS, any health career or passed that never should had.

Many never enter the field because after exposure or classes it is not what they expected. This is a shame because they do take up space, time and waste their money and time on a program as well as "flood" the numbers when comparing numbers for the work force. It is hard to justify increase pay, or need for more volunteers, when there are several hundred thousands of EMT's that are being certified yearly. Even though we know the real difference, it makes it hard to prove.

Personally, when I instructed Basic EMT I required Nelson Denny reading test. This gave me a chance to "screen" applicants. I would talk to them with guidance counselors and place them into a reading program, to enhance their basic educational skills. This is far more important than any program they may ever enter. By doing this, this allowed them to comprehend material better, have better study skills and a higher score on the NREMT exam.

I wonder how many on this forum has ever witnessed litigation and testimonies from EMT's from their charting, documentation as well as statements from them. I have and the part of the plaintiffs attorney is to project an image of ignorance, ill prepared and uneducated to the jury or judge. Even in the best educated levels (Dr.'s, etc..).

To persuade that the medics are not competent from their normal day actions to their education and intelligence levels is what juries make decisions from. I have seen PCR sheets enlarged to 6 foot size, with grossly mis-spelled common words, and even one had CPR misspelled multiple times. What image do you think this left... even though, I had heard that they were very "skilled". This leaves the jury to doubt credibility, and that is all it takes. Again, everyone is judged on how well they speak, write or communicate. Watch t.v. news reports... we have seen interviews, that we all cringe at.

Not everyone is cut out to work or be able to be in this profession... cold hard facts, but the truth. Like many other professions.

R/r 911

 

[Megs_h13]

Okay now i get it. It's like here curtain stations here will develope their own exam and require you to pass it with an 80%. The one thing I disagree with here is that they lowered the passing grade for the PCP course when I took it they required you to have an 80% and now they only ask that you have a 60%. It kinda ticks me off cause I worked my tush off to get my 89% and now all the new people taking the course aren't trying as hard cause it isn't that hard to get a 60%. But to get into the course here you need a high school grade of 62% and at least two sciences and two maths. The PCP istructors here will fail you on the spot for many reasons. When I was in the course I started with 29 fellow students and only 15 when we graduated. And honestly only 5 have jobs and I'm the only late bloomer to getting a job.

Now the can't read part isn't true, I have learning disabilities and am weak at reading, math, and I have ADD. If the person taking the course really wants to be an EMT they will use every tool to acheive it. Like my instuctor said not all great paramedics can read well or do math without a calculator, they are great at problem solving and reacting to situations without delay. (keep in mind they had to pass ACP first ^_^ )

So then each state has their own exam you must pass to be able to work there? Or is it just one big entry exam?

 

[Ridryder911]

All basic fundamentals is essential in the medical career. I too have problems with math, I took additional classes to help me with this, rather ignore the problem, I corrected it. The same with any other learning disabilities. Many can overcome or at least improve it enough to be satisfactory in the work place. Each person has some weakness, how you handle it is up to the person. My main point is each EMT should have at least high enough educational level to be able to perform in the health care setting, by reading and comprehending medical literature/studies, perform pharmacological math problems without additional aid (Murphy's law, calculator will fail when needed most), and have an above knowledge in biological science.

To answer your question regards certification' technically each state sets up its own criteria for levels, and certification or licenses. Some administer their own state tests, some even go as far as county, city.. regional...etc. All dependent upon the region, state. Many will recognize the National Registry of EMT's testing as a standardized test. (They are only a testing organization, that will maintain records to keep current cert.) Some may accept it without any additional testing, some may allow one to take their test for that region, again all dependent upon the locale area.

As you can see, we are very fragmented and disorientated in the EMS system. Even though we formally invented most of the aggressiveness of EMS, we have dropped the ball in continuation of EMS and still have a long way to go.

Unfortunately, a lot of U.S. citizens still do not have ALS when they summon EMS. Although, there is no legitimate excuse. Our priorities in providing sufficient care is much lower than some other countries and areas.

Now, with this saying we do have many great EMT's and medics that have dedicated their lives to furtherment of EMS and provide excellent care. We have some of the best providers in the world as demonstrated by the way we have handles specific situations.

R/r 911

 

[fm_emt]

Oh I get it, lucky American's you guys can go straight into Paramedic. Unlike here we have to be EMT's for at least two years before you can even think of becoming a Medic.

It's very similar here - well, you *can* just jump right into a Paramedic course, but the only one that will let you do that around here costs like $20,000. The other schools require you to have 6mos-1yr full time EMT experience first before they'll even consider you.

So, it depends.

 

[Ridryder911]

It is all dependent on the region. Many education institution do not have "field" or EMT experience requirement. In fact some are removing the EMT requirement from entering Paramedic Class. It is inclusive in the program Basic to Paramedic all together.

R/r 911