Interfacility Transport

So, how bout it?

  • I treat IFT as a sit and stare, they're stable anyway.

    Votes: 4 10.5%
  • I only assess nursing home to hospital non emergent patients

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I assess the patient, just not as well as I do 911 calls.

    Votes: 12 31.6%
  • I assess both types equally.

    Votes: 22 57.9%

  • Total voters
    38
  • Poll closed .
Really? So nobody trips over anything or slips on anything? Nobody on the planet misses their chair when they go to sit down or just loses their balance because they have an abnormal gait?

Now that you mentioned it...

Why do they have an abnormal gait?

What meds are they taking that may affect their balance?

What other medical conditions that affect their balance?

What electrolyte imbalances cause dizziness?

What cardiac conditions can cause momentary weakness or dizziness?

What medical conditions can cause sudden changes in BP?

Geriactric medicine is very complex which is why it is a medical specialty.
 
Really? Because the second half of her post...



Sounds like she's talking about the reason for the fall.

She never said all patients fall because of heart problems, hypoglycemia, etc. She said a fall is rarely simple, which it's not. That doesn't mean the cause has to be complicated, but have you ever paid attention to the before and afters? The patients who never make it out of the hospital due to complications? While it may not be an "emergency" to some providers falls can be quite serious.
 
She never said all patients fall because of heart problems, hypoglycemia, etc.

But she doesn't acknowledge the 95% of them that fall simply because they're old and frail and invalid.
 
Now that you mentioned it...

Why do they have an abnormal gait?

What meds are they taking that may affect their balance?

What other medical conditions that affect their balance?

What electrolyte imbalances cause dizziness?

What cardiac conditions can cause momentary weakness or dizziness?

What medical conditions can cause sudden changes in BP?

Geriactric medicine is very complex which is why it is a medical specialty.

They could have an abnormal gait due to a neurological condition, an amputation, maybe because of previous musculoskeletal injuries, or maybe just because they're OLD.

I don't know much about medications or electrolyte imbalances, I will admit.

Intermittent v-tach? Cardiac trigeminy or bigeminy? Cardiac pause? Various heart blocks?

Or maybe the vast majority of them just fall down BECAUSE THEY'RE OLD.

And I'm walking away from this thread before you try to turn me into a bad guy again.
 
Lolllllllllll! This turned entertaining. Some people just aren't made out for education :]
 
Did you miss my first post in this thread?

Every patient that I am ever in the back of an ambulance with gets a full set of vitals and the most thorough assessment that I, as an EMT, can perform (providing for patient modesty when it doesn't interfere with patient care). Altogether, I check blood pressure, pulse, respiratory rate, SpO2, mental status and orientation, skin temp, skin color, skin moisture, pupils, checks for JVD, tracheal deviation, and equal chest rise and fall, auscultation of lung sounds, palpation of the abdomen, assessment of PMS, cap refill, and check for pedal edema. Anything of note, right down to lacerations less than a centimeter in length, is documented. Altogether, I do this at least three times in your typical call: once upon first patient contact, again upon our departure from wherever we picked the patient up, and then every fifteen minutes (for stable patients) until a final assessment just before arrival at the facility. The only difference between my treatment during a BLS 911 and my treatment during a BLS IFT is that on a 911 I call the hospital and give a report.

You can assess VS but if you are still thinking like a taxi driver that this is just an old person that "fell and go boom" you may still miss the bigger picture. The mentality of "BLS" IFT skews ones judgement for thinking as a true medical professional that doesn't think in terms of "ALS or BLS" when it comes to assessing medical situations.

However, it is good to see you are at least assessing your patient. Some don't and it becomes obvious if you read some IFT patient care reports.
 
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What do you consider an IFT???????

I have question for Vent, RR, and Sasha:



What do you consider an IFT?
 
IFT is:

Any Discharge
Dialysis
Doctors Appointment

Pretty much anything where you are not going into an ER. That is considered emergent / Code 2

Edit:
This is part of a PM convo I had. I have removed a few things that are not about this convo, if the person i had wants me to add them back, just lemme know and I'll do it :]


Sure, maybe a geriatric fall may just be a trip. But when people get older they become extremely more sensitive to infections, or any types of sickness. And pretty much any infection can lead to dizziness. If you ask the patient, how did you fall, or were you feeling dizzy. Many times they will just say I dont know or no. But if you ask more about their history and assess them more. You may come across finding out that they recently had an infection, commonly UTI, which will cause extreme dizzines, and make it harder for them to remember.

So old people falling isn't just a straight up simple call. You are being paid to be an EMT, and you should do a full assessment, and assess every patient the same. You get paid the same no matter what. Even if the reason they fell is just mechanical, who cares? It gives you practice for assessments and patient contact. It allows you to learn more about how a patient reacts, so when something bad does happen, you will be able to react to it better. If you think of possible chemical causes of what might cause it. Then when you go over what you did, you can think of what might happen next time, and how you will react to the situation therefore providing better care.
 
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You can assess VS but if you are still thinking like a taxi driver that this is just an old person that "fell and go boom" you may still miss the bigger picture. The mentality of "BLS" IFT skews ones judgement for thinking as a true medical professional that doesn't think in terms of "ALS or BLS" when it comes to assessing medical situations.

However, it is good to see you are at least assessing your patient. Some don't and it becomes obvious if you read some IFT patient care reports.

I thought that getting the patient's medical history, list of medications, etc. went without saying?

Occam's Razor says that the simplest answer is probably the correct one until you uncover something that suggests otherwise. If I have a patient that presents as a fall, the simplest answer is that they fell because they tripped or slipped or something. If they say that they became suddenly dizzy or had a syncopal episode, that takes "just fell" off the table and opens up new and more serious possibilities.
 
I have question for Vent, RR, and Sasha:



What do you consider an IFT?

I consider IFT to be anything that goes from one facility to another.

Could be HEMS taking from a little general to a level I trauma center, stroke center, hospital with cath lab. Ground transport for those previously mentioned. Nursing home to ER. Hospital to nursing home`, nursing home to dialysis, dialysis to nursing home, dialysis to private residence.
 
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I will add that for a helicopter, in some states a separate cert/license for that helicopter is required to do scene response and IFT.

We have had a couple of HEMS helicopters that could use the hospital helipad to pick up a patient from the ground EMS crew but if a member of the hospital staff made any contact with the patient it would be considered IFT and the helicopter could not legally transport the patient if their agency did not have the correct cert.

Some areas also contract "emergency" responses to LTC facilities to private ambulance companies and do not want these facilites calling 911. Technically they are an "emergency" but they are also considered IFT and may have the same stigma as if it was a "routine" jsut because of where the patient happens to live.
 
We have a few of those nursing contracts set up here where the nursing home calls our dispatch (private service) directly rather than going through 911. We will still respond emergently if appropriate but it saves a fire engine since there are already nurses there with patient care the EMT's on the engine beating us by 30 seconds is kind of a waste.

I look at an IFT as any call that doesn't come from the 911 com center but it really doesn't make any difference. When we're paged for a call all I listen to is the address and the response code. I don't like when dispatch tells us a chief complaint because too many people get locked into that and dispatch is often wrong. The other day we responded (911) to a possible stroke patient who actually had his arm caught in the PTO on a tractor. IFT vs 911 should be the same as BLS vs ALS, there is no difference it's all patient care and all patients deserve the best care that you can provide within your scope.
 
IFT vs 911 should be the same as BLS vs ALS, there is no difference it's all patient care and all patients deserve the best care that you can provide within your scope.

Challenge flag is out.
The psych hold that should be walked to the truck, who is cooperative, but going through a rough time, and merely choose the "wrong" ER to go to does not need a a head to toe physical, and vitals q15 min.
A comfy seat, and the reassurance that you are there to help, or talk to if they so choose.

Gather the hx from RN and pt to see what lead to the event, and to see if you might need to take extra precautions (flight risk, violent, triggers, etc)

The little old lady who FDGB, has a brain bleed, is on Coumadin, has a fx hip, and AMS DOES get the full ride. I would be the one doing the initial assessment, making sure shes properly C-Spined, on the monitor, drips switched to our pump, and then my MICN would assume care as soon as he/she is done getting report.

Granted, those are the extremes that I mentioned, just to play devils advocate, but you get the point.
 
I run IFTs like any other call. Every patient deserves a full and complete assessment. The only thing I would tend not to do is poke too many holes in them, CBG excepting.
 
I saw this on a thread, and rather than hijack it, I decided to start up a thread for it all it's own.

From the fingers of Miss VentMedic


I disagree. Some may take a rather blasé approach to patients, but I feel that IFT provides exposure to diseases, disorders and conditions that one might not run on frequently on a 911 truck. I believe some people actually take the job seriously and asses the patient to a greater extent than browsing the chart and copying a face sheet.

So I'm wondering, how many of those who do both 911 and IFT are lax with their assesment for an IFT patient??

I don't lax on any call. I tell all new Basics that IFT is a great experience for them. this is their chance to practice all their skills. take BP's while the ambulance is in motion. listen to lung sounds. At the Paramedic level IFT's become more interesting. there is usually a bit to do and stay on top of. but the best part of an ALS IFT is the patient's records/file. I don't say this to violate HIPPA. but I advise reading the Patient's chart. learn and understand why the Pt is being transferred. Some transfers can teach more than others...

But there is always something to learn, or practice, or keep an eye on on all transfers, from critical to mundane
 
I don't lax on any call. I tell all new Basics that IFT is a great experience for them. this is their chance to practice all their skills. take BP's while the ambulance is in motion. listen to lung sounds. At the Paramedic level IFT's become more interesting. there is usually a bit to do and stay on top of. but the best part of an ALS IFT is the patient's records/file. I don't say this to violate HIPPA. but I advise reading the Patient's chart. learn and understand why the Pt is being transferred. Some transfers can teach more than others...

But there is always something to learn, or practice, or keep an eye on on all transfers, from critical to mundane

What is there to violate HIPPA by looking at the chart? As the person assuming care for the pt you are entitled just as much as the pts nurse in the hospital to look at that chart and get a complete history on your pt before you recieve care
 
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