Hello and a question.

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Eightydeuce

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Thank you for allowing me into your forums. I am not a medic. I am a police officer and have been in law enforcement since 1986.

Mods please move this post if this is the wrong place and I apologize if it is.

Here is my question and the reason I registered at this forum. I would like to put together a first aid kit to carry in my patrol car. The purpose of the kit would be to respond to an active shooter scene or other man made (read terrorist) disaster.

I want the kit to be able to address multiple gun shot victims or victims of severe lacerations or shrapnel injuries and I guess possibly burns.

The kit needs to contain items I can obtain legally over the counter. The items do not just have to be items within my knowledge base or skill set as it may be possible that there is an off duty doctor, nurse or medic at the scene.

I already plan to have copious amounts of 4x4s and roll bandages. I also will likely have Celox or Quickclot.

Beyond these items what would be needed. If you were off duty and happened to be on scene with me what items would you like to see in the kit?

Again this is not a kit for general first aid with pain relievers and band aids and such. I am looking for what is needed to deal with serious trauma until professional medical help is obtained.

Thanks for any help.
 
a box of tampons. a sterile burn sheet. heavy duty medical scissors. tape. petroleum impregnated dressings (not sure if those are OTC), a couple of bottles of sterile water. A few of emergency blankets (the foil ones). Those big abdominal dressping pads ( commonly called ABD's).

My dad tells me that he never assists on medical calls because police are targets. (re: kneeling over a victim and not being able to maintain awareness of the surroundings... this makes sense to me in a high crime area, or potential terrorist event.)

But THANK YOU for your concern!! seriously!
 
Welcome aboard. Our law enforcement partners are always welcome here.

It doesn't take much. The military perfected this a long time ago. In fact, the current thinking is that less is more, to the point that each person should have the items for their own care on their person. Start with this:
* Combat pressure dressings, like the Israeli Dressing, carried by the U.S. Military.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MHR330-1.html
http://www.narescue.com/liEmergency-Trauma-Dressing-ETDsupTMsup-C220.aspx

* Self-application tourniquets, like the CAT (Combat Application Tourniquet).

http://www.narescue.com/liCombat-Application-Tourniquet-C-A-T--C219.aspx

* Sterile, compressed rolled gauze.

http://www.narescue.com/S-Rolled-Gauze-P23C210.aspx

* Quick Clot ACS Clotting Sponge.

http://www.narescue.com/QuikClot-ACS-Hemostatic-Agent-P26C210.aspx

* Trauma shears for removing clothing and gear to access injuries (I've seen too many adrenaline pumped guys cause real problems trying to do this with their knife).

http://www.narescue.com/NAR-Trauma-Shears-7-14-P262C201.aspx​
Anything more than that is completely unnecessary. And even those items should only be used by officers who are very specifically trained on how and when to do so. There is a significant problem with people slamming a tourniquet and Quick Clot on everything that bleeds. Just because it's a GSW does not mean it needs the kitchen sink. Few cops will ever see a wound that needs any of that in an entire career. In fact, not many combat medics do either. So again, competent training -- and continuous retraining -- is essential to assuring these are used properly. If they are not used properly, they are worse than useless.

There may be other topics of interest to you in the "Wilderness and Tactical" forum further below. Good luck!
 
Again, Welcome to EMTLife! Does your department provide you with a medical kit other then for this purpose? Are you a first responder, and dispatched with an ambulance for anyhing? I would encourage you, if you are interested in providing any level of care (including on the scene of a shooting) to take a First Responder or EMT Class. It can sometimes get you a bump in pay, etc.

The kit described above sounds great (see my comment below), but I get the idea you wont use it often. You will use a more basic kit a lot more often (with the most often supplies being ice packs, ace bandages, bandaids, gauze and maybe some sterile water (for irrigating small wounds). Are you trained on, or do you carry oxygen?

I worked in Israel as an EMT, and have used the trauma dressings above ("Tachboshet Eisheit" and "Tachboshet Beinonei"). They are absolutely amazing at soaking up blood, stopping bleeding, etc. I really had not seen them outside Israel, and may buy some for myself-- they are just that good. You do need to learn how to use them (so open one up, rip down the straps and play with different configurations of how to secure the bandage).

Good Luck!

Dan
 
I used to work for a very large west coast agency and we were CPR and BLS trained. I now work for a small department in the East. We are not trained or expected to do anything but arrive on scene and wait for the paramedics.

I am not opposed to getting current training from the Red Cross but that training and any equipment is out of my own pocket.

My main goal of this kit is to control bleeding until proper medical attention can be obtained.

We do not have a full time SWAT team and it could take 30-50 minutes to tone them out and have them suited up and ready to enter the scene. Our SOP is basically as soon as there are at least two officers on scene we go in. I'm looking to put together a first aid kit that I could throw over my shoulder and carry into the scene. If need be I could use it once the threat is neutralized or I could pass it off to someone who is on scene and trained in the medical field.

I have never used Quickclot and it is not something I would just throw on a wound. I realize that it needs to be cleaned from the wound before treatment and that could complicate things. I would only use it in a last ditch effort to stop bleeding.

Tourniquets quite frankly scare me because I know that improper use could result in limb loss and a host of other problems. I would only apply one if I could not stop bleeding with a less drastic approach.

Again though my philosophy on first aid kits is that my kit my not be used by me or it may even be used ON me. That is why I would stock it with some items that are beyond my skill set.

The replies thus far are good and I appreciate them. I will begin to obtain some of the listed items. I have the sterile 4x4s and roll bandages. I also have some of the Johnson and Johnson non-stick dressings.

Thanks for your help.
 
The new QuickClot ACS does not have the problems that were associated with the QuickClot granular formulation. You don't pour it into a wound. It's like a beanbag full of QC that you stuff down deep into the wound. Cleaning it out is as easy as plucking it out with your fingers. Of course, that is for the surgeon to do, not you.

Both QC and a tourniquet are for unstoppable arterial bleeding only. And the tourniquet would always be your first choice, as it almost always takes care of the problem. The QC is for use when the TK is not enough, or in locations where a TK cannot be applied. This is extremely rare, even in combat, so honestly, it's hardly worth even buying QC since you'll probably never need it before it simply expires.

Unfortunately, you're not going to learn combat wound care in a first aid course, including a civilian EMT or paramedic course. You'll need to either find a tactical medic instructor who can teach "buddy care" or "self care" for non-medical personnel. Contact the big-city tac teams around you and talk with their medics about it. They may or may not be able to help you, as most so-called "tactical medics" I see these days don't know anything more about medicine than the average street medic. They just know how to dress in black and paint their face.

Another option is to check with your local National Guard unit medical personnel. They may well have a Combat Life Saver (CLS) instructor in the unit who would be willing to conduct some training with you, or even just some experienced CLS providers.

You'll probably hear a lot of people -- both medics and officers alike -- poo poo your idea, but don't let them discourage you. The fact is that you have a very realistic concern and a realistic plan of preparing for it. Good luck.
 
I think this is a great idea, especially for conscious officers like yourself that want to be ready for anything.

I know there is a lot of new positive information about tourniquets coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan, as most of the EMS stuff is literally trickle down from the military realm.

I think you will see a lot more positive looks to the use of tourniquets, even in non dire bleeds. But, that is just one person's opinion.

All the random thoughts aside, I think you would do yourself really well to get some of the training suggested. Also, I don't know where in the East you are now working, but I live in Connecticut, and every police officer in the state is supposed to be trained to the MRT (Our fancy term for First Responder) level. It might be beneficial to your entire jurisdiction to have your officers trained, at least CPR/First Aid. Every second really does count.

I wish you the best with your endeavors, you've got an awesome idea.
 
i'd go with everything already stated,

gauze and abd. pads for sure! thats a majority of what I have in my jump bag.


welcome aboard!
 
Eightydeuce said:
I used to work for a very large west coast agency and we were CPR and BLS trained. I now work for a small department in the East. We are not trained or expected to do anything but arrive on scene and wait for the paramedics.
Click to expand...

Welcome EightyDeuce...

Fellow PO here. My trunk is complete with my M4 patrol rifle, and spare mags :D

Thats all you really need, no?

Actualy, my agency stocks each cruiser with O2, "first in" bags, AED, blankets, etc. We also are expected to provide care until Fire/EMS shows up. However everyone is minimum first responder, with many being EMT's.

Care to share what state/area you're in? or PM me?

Saucey
 
I used to work in California. I now work in Kentucky. I went from a place that had 300+ homicides a year to a place that has 1 a year if that. :)

My agency, or more likely city govt., doesn't want us to provide care. Like I said we don't even get CPR certs here. Some day it will likely bite us in the rear with a liability lawsuit but I am just a trench fighter I don't get to make the command decisions :blush:

My department is an excellent agency to work for. I have no gripe with command or any other department issues. I think we are held back a little by the city government. That should improve since I think there will be some changes soon.

We are not issued patrol rifles so the only thing I have in my trunk is trunk :P Should I responded to an active shooter its only my side arm and my soon to be first aid kit :blush:
 
I'm from the bluegrass state also! Are you any where near the Huntington-Ashland-Ironton area?
 
Eightydeuce said:
We are not issued patrol rifles so the only thing I have in my trunk is trunk :P Should I responded to an active shooter its only my side arm and my soon to be first aid kit :blush:
Click to expand...

That sucks...our policy is great because it allows for patrol rifles to be deployed at any call with a high probability of firearms being present. Not just active shooters...:ph34r:
 
I work for a CA. sheriff dept but I'm an RN, and ex- EMT, etc.

Suggest you undergo formal training (EMTB or first responder). Also you might drop by local Krispy Creme's and find a state patrol , trooper, or whatnot and ask to see what sort of kit they carry; most state's have their highway guys carry stuff, CHP sure as heck does.

See the threads we have about what to put in your kit, what not to oputin your kits, etc.
 
I don't believe I saw this suggestion, so here's my 2cents...

If you want to carry extra equipment that others may be able to use, that's wonderful, but I would suggest taking the equipment you are qualified to use and placing it inside a separate container inside your jump bag.

This will keep the items you are qualified to use neat, orderly, and easy to find when you need it, while having the extra equipment available on scene if others of higher training are around.

stay safe
-B
 
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