field guides (maybe combat)

HNcorpsman said:
i have a feeling that the navy will issue me that special forces handbook... but just for :censored::censored::censored::censored:s and giggles i saw this on amazon... its a informed EMS ALS version it looks pretty informative and look to be pretty easy to navigate...


http://www.amazon.com/EMS-Field-Gui...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237718230&sr=8-1
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Why wouldn't they send an experienced SF medic in the first place? Nothing personal, but all the books in the world won't replace experience. I know you are excited about the opportunity, and I'm sure you will learn a lot and do great, however, if you are going to be the lone medical provider for this group, EMT-B and top of your class in corpman school might be less than adequate education. Please, don't take this in the wrong way, we all start somewhere, however it seems to me being the only medical provider for a group of soldiers in Afghanistan w/o access to advanced medical care, they are placing you in a position that is quite likely beyond your current capabilities.
 
Thanks for serving.

I don't know what access you will have to medicines, but if you think you may have some that are unfamiliar to you, you may want to consider a tarascon pocket pharmacopia as well. It is about half the thickness of a deck of cards but has a tremendous amount of information on medications and dosages.

Take care
-B
 
boingo said:
Why wouldn't they send an experienced SF medic in the first place? Nothing personal, but all the books in the world won't replace experience. I know you are excited about the opportunity, and I'm sure you will learn a lot and do great, however, if you are going to be the lone medical provider for this group, EMT-B and top of your class in corpman school might be less than adequate education. Please, don't take this in the wrong way, we all start somewhere, however it seems to me being the only medical provider for a group of soldiers in Afghanistan w/o access to advanced medical care, they are placing you in a position that is quite likely beyond your current capabilities.
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Military does what it does. He will become quite experienced quickly.
 
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boingo said:
Why wouldn't they send an experienced SF medic in the first place? <snip> Please, don't take this in the wrong way, we all start somewhere, however it seems to me being the only medical provider for a group of soldiers in Afghanistan w/o access to advanced medical care, they are placing you in a position that is quite likely beyond your current capabilities.
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As already stated, the military does what they do. Period. Your uninformed opinion on the matter is wasted breath. They are not without access to advanced medical care. But just like our patients have to see us before they see the doctor, the Marines have to see their platoon's corpsman before they go to the BAS. In order to prevent the limited physician resources from being overwhelmed by athletes foot and URI's, the corpsman is to address those within specific guidelines, and within their capabilities. Our friend here is not placing himself anywhere. The Navy is placing him there, and he is quite capable of handling it. Not once in two tours assigned to Navy medical in Iraq, I never saw a single instance of Corpsmen stepping beyond their capabilities. Don't worry about it.
 
i will say it again, the military does what they need to do... its a numbers game... they will do what they can but sometimes it all boils down to what they need, when they need them, and where they need them... simple things like two guys are in corps school, guy A lives in cali, guy B lives in virginia, well the navy tried but guy A got orders to virginia, and guy B got orders to cali... and they CANT switch, sorry suck it up... they simply need FMF corpsman right now and they dont have enough of them, it sometimes baffles me why they picked me when there is a HM2 or HM1 that is WAY more experienced than me sitting right next to me not doing anything!!! whatever, you cant argue with your chain of command because you will either get yelled at for asking questions or they simply cant do anything... it is simply the way it is... i am just doing my best to prepare myself and make sure that my marines and i will be safe...
 
AJ Hidell said:
As already stated, the military does what they do. Period. Your uninformed opinion on the matter is wasted breath. They are not without access to advanced medical care. But just like our patients have to see us before they see the doctor, the Marines have to see their platoon's corpsman before they go to the BAS. In order to prevent the limited physician resources from being overwhelmed by athletes foot and URI's, the corpsman is to address those within specific guidelines, and within their capabilities. Our friend here is not placing himself anywhere. The Navy is placing him there, and he is quite capable of handling it. Not once in two tours assigned to Navy medical in Iraq, I never saw a single instance of Corpsmen stepping beyond their capabilities. Don't worry about it.
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Uninformed? Far from it. I was chosen to provide a similar service to a group of soldiers and forensic scientists from Hawaii searching for remains in the highlands of Vietnam in the early 90's. Looking back at it now I realize how I was not the best suited for the job, even though everything ended fine. My impression is he will be without access to advanced care, as in he is it for ALL levels of care. Perhaps I read wrong, in which case my bad. If I read correctly, and his access to a higher echelon of care is non existant, then the powers that be could have probably found a more experienced provider. I know full well about going where you are told, however that doesn't make it a good decision.
 
boingo said:
Uninformed? Far from it. <snip> Perhaps I read wrong, in which case my bad. If I read correctly, and his access to a higher echelon of care is non existant, then the powers that be could have probably found a more experienced provider.
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Regardless of your unrelated experience, you are uninformed about the realities of his situation, which is not at all similar to yours. And yes, you read incorrectly. He's not being sent to care for a group of men isolated from higher eschelons of care for extended periods of time. He is simply the first eschelon of care assigned to them in a chain of advanced care that stretches all the way back to the U.S.
 
HNcorpsman said:
wow... sorry to disappoint daedalus. i believe that i am actually very highly trained, i was the top of my class in EMT school before i joined the navy, keep in mind i was 18 at the time... i was 2nd highest in my corps school class, and was top of the class is field med... i am not looking for a medical school in a hand guide... i would just simply like to have the guide so i know my marines are being treated correctly, my life and their life depends on it, can you really blame me for trying to get this kind of information. should i really go to the rural areas of afghanistan alone without the aid of a second opinion... dont you understand? im not in the city with my partner, and a radio call away from an MD... i am in afghanistan, alone!!! and no i cant simply call someone to ask a question. it could even go the other way around, what if i get hurt, and cant treat myself... sure my marines could stop me from bleeding out, hell they could even start an IV, but do you think they would know which solution to give me? they would probably just give me NS, not thinking (or knowing) that the proper solution would be LR. if they had a reference, they would know...



thank you FF-EMT-DIVER for understanding my situation.
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Oh boy. I wish you luck. Thank you for our service, but I must remind you that EMT school, even at the top percentile, is a class that teaches you to depend on other things, like rapid transport to the hospital and ALS intercept. Taking that class and expecting knowledge or ability in diagnosis and treatment is like going to a tiny tots league game expecting to see major league gameplay.
 
AJ Hidell said:
Daedelus, you don't think the physicians, PAs, and NPs in the military take books with them too? Let me assure you that they do. No matter how comprehensive your education, there will always be things you have to go back to the book for. Clinical medicine isn't as simple as your little world in the back of an ambulance. We don't have the luxury of just starting an IV and transporting every abdominal pain we get. We have to actually diagnose the problem and competently treat it. It takes more than "protocols" to do that, so let's not hastily criticize our friend here for trying to better himself and cover his bases.

Good advice from mycrofft about keeping the book handy and studying it often, instead of sitting around and playing playstation at the MWR or watching bootleg movies from the Hajji shop. But again, the Merck Manual is seriously outdated in both the content and the method of presentation. The CMDT is the Merck Manual on steroids, and is the standard that you will find in every BAS. If you're going to relate to the BAS personnel, you'll want to be working out of the same boo as them.
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I would have hoped that our troops are valuable enough to give our OP here more training than EMT/Corpsman to provide care for them. I stand by my statement, but I applaud those who serve our country.
 
You might also want to post this on the lightfighter.net tactical medicine forum. There are many people on there with lots of experience doing exactly what you are heading for. You will get some good info without having to educate people who dont understand.
 
HNcorpsman said:
...i saw this on amazon... its a informed EMS ALS version it looks pretty informative and look to be pretty easy to navigate...
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They were handing those out like candy in the earlier years of Iraq. Cases of them gathering sand dust at MedLog. There may still be some floating around there. Not sure what idiot decided they were a good idea to buy by the thousands, but I hope he was demoted. N00bs carried them around for their first month, until realizing that they'd never use it and losing it at the bottom of their footlocker. The focus and content make it useless for your purposes. You're not going to be doing any critical care. You're going to be doing a little trauma and a lot of minor clinical medicine, neither of which is that guide worth 2 cents for. Unless someone else here has been where you are going, and has something better to offer, take my advice.
 
deadalus- i understand what you are saying, but i was just explaining to you that i have had lots of training and dont want a guide, because i dont know any better. keep in mind that i have not yet begun the bulk of the training i have ahead of me. i have only done OEMS, and Jungle warfare up in okinawa... know that i still have nearly 4 months of training ahead of me... and im sure they will teach me everything i need to know for this type of deployment. im almost 100% positive that they will tell me everything about the medications i am given. when, when not, how, doses, everything... i just want to MAKE sure because sometimes you have to do things your self in order for them to get done in the military...
 
I don't get why people are complaining. Perhaps you don't agree with the situation but as he is in the military, he doesn't have the option of backing out. Knocking him or what he is being sent to do seems so pointless.

Good luck HN! And stay safe! I have nothing else to offer but that. Please keep in touch with EMTLife!
 
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AJ Hidell said:
Regardless of your unrelated experience, you are uninformed about the realities of his situation, which is not at all similar to yours. And yes, you read incorrectly. He's not being sent to care for a group of men isolated from higher eschelons of care for extended periods of time. He is simply the first eschelon of care assigned to them in a chain of advanced care that stretches all the way back to the U.S.
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On a note that I isolate from the OP, it is very very interesting to me on how you seem to contradict your own philosophy on education here. In the civilian world, would you say that an EMT-B with corpsman related experience is educated enough to provide mid-level care in a fast track? Or, because it is the military, is it okay to forgo the push to educate medical providers?
 
Get real, Dude. The real world and the military have nothing to do with each other. Completely different worlds.
 
That was an emotional response. Thanks for a thoughtful debate.
 
daedalus said:
That was an emotional response. Thanks for a thoughtful debate.
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If you knew anything about the military and military medicine, you'd have a clue what a realistic response it was.
 
deadalus-
"In the civilian world, would you say that an EMT-B with corpsman related experience is educated enough to provide mid-level care in a fast track? Or, because it is the military, is it okay to forgo the push to educate medical providers?"

yes, its the military... but you act as if we get out of boot camp, and are automatically corpsman, we do have training, extensive training... the military can only go so far with training, they need us out there with the marines, they need us there because if we arnt there the moral will be bad, and marines will die... the fact is that us corpsman are mainly trained, and are drilled on trauma, because it is seen very often on the battlefield and someone can die very quickly in result of it... we are still trained in other things, but not as heavily. please understand that in times of war the military does things that might not seem right to you... in vietnam the corpsman went to boot, and went through a speedy corps school and were sent to vietnam, its just the way it is sometimes... there is a reason the military is "the military" its not just a place were you work, it owns you!!! some people can believe that and simply dont understand that... they make us cut our hair a certain way, they make us dress a certain way... haha in corps school the rooms we lived in had asbestus all over the place, some kid complained and he got in trouble!!! its just the way it is... the military does what it does. period!
 
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