Fact-based analysis of shootings in America (and some of the world)

mycrofft

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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Gotta swing back on ya ;)

mycrofft said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

This article was written shortly after the Sandy Hook shootings, but contains some updates.

There are obviously some factors which may get around statistics (such as people giving firearms to one another in-family) and sometimes the stats seem counter-intuitive, but that's how reality goes; if it was easy, anyone could do it!


Happy holidays.:cool:
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You reference an article that lists the shooter as a "victim..." really? ;)
 
Luno said:
You reference an article that lists the shooter as a "victim..." really? ;)
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::takes the troll bait::

Does it mention what he was a victim of? Just because someone did a despicable act doesn't mean they weren't a victim of something in the chain leading up to it. Example: The sad state of mental health in the US.
 
If I ever run a cherry farm, I'm giving him my first offer of employment
 
JPINFV said:
::takes the troll bait::

Does it mention what he was a victim of? Just because someone did a despicable act doesn't mean they weren't a victim of something in the chain leading up to it. Example: The sad state of mental health in the US.
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My personal thought from experience: "Sorry, you have an incurable disease called sociopathy and homicidal tendencies with a smattering of just being a bad person. We can't cure you and we sure can't let you run around loose in Society. Ciao".

But the perps families…man. Although there has been a tendency for the preps to kill their families first.
 
Here's the alleged source of that web page:


http://www.guysmith.org/blog/about-guy-smith/media-resources-for-guy-smith/

AND I QUOTE:
"Guy Smith is a writer, songwriter and political provocateur. At times Smith has been a cowboy, surfer, computer guru and a marketing strategist. Throughout he has been a libertarian and committed to expanding all freedoms and dressing down politicians in the process. “Once elected, you’re my employee and whipping boy.”

Smith contributes Op/Ed pieces to major metropolitan newspapers (San Francisco Chronicle, Oakland Tribune). He has published over 150 magazine articles and writes both fiction and non-fiction books. Smith appears frequently on talk radio programs and was an invited speaker to several Gun Rights Policy Conferences."

Not exactly a social scientist, legislator, law enforcement official or unbiased observer.
 
I saw something interesting recently....it said that currently, the US has the 4th highest murder rate in the world.

However, if you got rid of Chicago, DC, Detroit, and New Orleans, the US would have the third lowest murder rate in the world.....and guess what those 4 cities have in common?
 
Per capita the highest cities include only Detroit of that four. Flint. MI has the highest per capita. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/09/18/fbi-chicago-passes-new-york-as-murder-capital-of-u-s/

Total murders is worthless. If L.A. has a murder rate of, make up a number, twenty a week, and Memphis NE has the same, that means the population of Memphis Nebraska will potentially completely turn over ever six weeks. NEVER accept totals as "statistics" unless they also include mean or median or per capita; otherwise it's tea party slops.



Cite source?
 
Yes it does

JPINFV said:
::takes the troll bait::

Does it mention what he was a victim of? Just because someone did a despicable act doesn't mean they weren't a victim of something in the chain leading up to it. Example: The sad state of mental health in the US.
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Lists them as a victim of "gun violence..." ;)
 
Luno said:
Lists them as a victim of "gun violence..." ;)
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One person's view. Personally, I might count the perp as a firearm murder victim if his (or her) spouse shot them in an argument that evening over not cleaning the H&K properly. after the shooting.

Heard they had a 12 y/o male shooter at a school, teacher stopped him nonfatally, one kid in serious condition.
 
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/homicide.html

The Caribbean Basin countries plus Colombia have high murder rates (above/around 30 per 100 thousand) when the US is around 4. For those countries reporting (many don't or haven't yet for 20130 FIREARM homicides, the US has a rate around 3 per hundred thousand, and again the Caribbean Basin countries (notably Jamaica with 46.1 pre hundred thousand) is out in front.
 
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The Murder rate in the U.S. has declined by 39% since 1993 while the popuation increased by 52 million.....Make the punishment for any illegal possession of a firearms a 2-Felony with no plea deals and train more armed guards to protect our kids...all of a sudden something like a school shooting ends in 80 seconds with 1 death because of the presence of an Armed guard......
 
Jmo371 said:
The Murder rate in the U.S. has declined by 39% since 1993 while the popuation increased by 52 million.....Make the punishment for any illegal possession of a firearms a 2-Felony with no plea deals and train more armed guards to protect our kids...all of a sudden something like a school shooting ends in 80 seconds((??)) with 1 death because of the presence of an Armed guard......
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(emphasis is mycrofft's)

Presuming all goes perfectly. I consider "perfect" to be that the shooter or the gun don't make it into the target area to begin with.

If shooting starts, let's be pragmatic. Using Murphy's Rules of Combat, we remember that "Friendly fire…isn't". In a crowded scenario (school room, mall food court, movie theater), unless the shooter is really stupid and if the armed responders are really tip top trained/rehearsed/equipped/lucky, SOMEONE besides the shooter will get hurt and/or killed. Injecting fire from armed responders into a crowded scenario make it more likely the officers/guards' round will find innocents. (Officers are not even supposed to fire if anyone can likely get into their sight picture, no?). It many be deemed necessary to keep three or four victims from becoming ten or twenty, but god help the person making the call.

The goal of armed guards is to deter violence, or raise the ante so the wannabes and copycats can't realistically engage, but if the gun gets in then it is going to start. Armed engagement then becomes in most cases a means of minimizing the ultimate casualty count…preferably limited to the poor dangerous SOB who brought the gun. (Look at the profile of the school shooters…usually screwed up kids, not "criminal masterminds").

We had armed police (trying to "blend in"…:rofl:…) on my HS campus after a shooting in 1970. They ended up being diverted to every verbal dustup between students on a twenty acre, three-thousand pupil campus. Maybe if they had Segues and their own dispatcher who monitored closed circuit tv's all over the campus…who knows. But school districts and police departments don't have the money or manpower. Rent-a-cops are not the answer. (Maybe more all those mercs no longer needed in Afghanistan and Iraq?).

Can't we as medical providers and professionals think of, or even personally/locally do, anything to help keep these people from exploding, or at least getting hold of effective weapons? Start with reporting abuse cases better, teaching our kids not to fetishize firearms, getting involved with school security such as lunchtime monitoring?
 
I agree with some of it yes.

I was a boy scout and i got my eagle scout right before i turned 18. I learned to shoot a .22 at age 12 at camp and then a shotgun at age 13. I now am 25 and i own lots of firearms including so called "assault weapons," yet the respect I was taught at a young age and the education i received led me to respect them and understand firearms for what they are. So my firearms sit locked in a safe where they should be until i choose to work on/clean them or go hunting/target shooting. Muzzle discipline is always observed and so are traditional range rules. It is not to hard to give some education and respect to children(obviously the appropriate children) at a young age and you will find it transfers to a lifetime of respect for firearms.


the 80 seconds was in reference to the recent event in Colorado.
 
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OK got it. I was ignorant of the 80 sec reference.

I like your approach to guns as tools and collectibles, not toys or ego extensions.
 
mycrofft said:
OK got it. I was ignorant of the 80 sec reference.

I like your approach to guns as tools and collectibles, not toys or ego extensions.
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They are a tool and if used improperly and if not handled with care and respect can be deadly. I am a big CCW advocate but only AFTER training and the proper BGC as most states have for CCW permits.
 
Jmo371 said:
The Murder rate in the U.S. has declined by 39% since 1993 while the popuation increased by 52 million.....Make the punishment for any illegal possession of a firearms a 2-Felony with no plea deals and train more armed guards to protect our kids...all of a sudden something like a school shooting ends in 80 seconds with 1 death because of the presence of an Armed guard......
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Hopefully they're a better shot than the police... well, at least the LAPD.

truck-shot-by-lapd-in-dorner.jpeg


Less than 5 hits in over 100 shots while trying to murder... execute... umm... well, I don't know what they were trying to actually do to Dorner. Unfortunately they had the wrong truck (and "truck" was about the only thing that this truck had to do with Dorner's truck).

Now imagine if that was inside a school. The "guards" would kill more kids than the gunman.
 
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