Just curious to what people's protocols are to pt who have consumed excessive amounts of ETOH and are refusing transport. What about if they admit to having consumed a great deal of ETOH, are still pretty well oriented and refusing transport? Our protocols say they must be mentally competent and to be that they must not be under the influence of any mind altering substances. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
ETOH and refusals
- Thread starter emt4life
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DT4EMS
Kip Teitsort, Founder
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emt4life said:
You have definately picked a tough one. There is absolutley no cut and dry answer. There are peope that may only consume 3 beers and be legally "intoxicated" at the same time a person may be able to consume a case and not be.
If a person claims to have consumed a large amount of ETOH and appears to have impaired judgement and is a danger to themselves, your best bet is to get law enforcement involved.
In EMS people that are intoxicated can be our most dangerous to deal with. They may be very cooperative only to turn combative with little of no warning.
To give you my little .02 worth............
Over the years I have allowed people who had consumed ETOH to sign a refusal providing they did not appear to be a danger to themself. A person that is slobbering drunk, can't stand and has garbled speech got transported.
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In PA, if someone isn't CAOx4, and/or is visibly intoxicated, BLS or ALS must call Medical Command to get a refusal. Usually, the doc will be OK with a refusal if the patient is CAOx4, and there is someone to keep an eye on them overnight, and/or PD will be dealing with the Pt. after we release.
If someone is REALLY altered - they think today isn't cinco de mayo but is really Groundhog Day, and Bill Clinton is still President, and they are in Dallas, Texas, not West Chester, PA.... Then their butt is going to the ED... with PD's help if needed.
I'm somewhat an expert at drunks... I do run in a college town... for a school that is known as a "party school"
If someone is REALLY altered - they think today isn't cinco de mayo but is really Groundhog Day, and Bill Clinton is still President, and they are in Dallas, Texas, not West Chester, PA.... Then their butt is going to the ED... with PD's help if needed.
I'm somewhat an expert at drunks... I do run in a college town... for a school that is known as a "party school"
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MedicStudentJon said:
That is probably the best thing to do...punt to the guy with the actual license to practice medicine.
JJR512
Forum Deputy Chief
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I know what it means, but I don't know what ETOH actually stands for...? Ethyl something...?
VinBin
Forum Captain
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ETOH=ethanol
I think this is one area where it takes a good level of judgement on the part of the EMT/Medic. Most areas say that the person should be judged as "impared" by us, this is a very subjective area...I don't consider a person impared just because they smell of alcohol, but I have also heard others say that as long as they smell of alcohol/or admit to any drinks, they cannot refuse...
I think this is one area where it takes a good level of judgement on the part of the EMT/Medic. Most areas say that the person should be judged as "impared" by us, this is a very subjective area...I don't consider a person impared just because they smell of alcohol, but I have also heard others say that as long as they smell of alcohol/or admit to any drinks, they cannot refuse...