Entering a locked building ?

[Level1pedstech]

Funny story from my EMT clinicals a year ago:


We got called out for a suicide attempt. We staged down the road, but the medic and emt decided to go in because it was a 20y/o girl and they weren't too worried that she'd out-muscle 3 guys.


We arrive and PD and FD arrive right after... so 2 police cars, an engine with 4 FF's, another medic/emt and me... 9 people.

We knock on the door. Nothing. We walk around the house looking in all the windows. Nothing. Keep in mind an ambulance, engine, and police cars outside with lights on.


We send FD on their way and one of the cops calls for a supervisor. Once the supervisor arrived, he broke open the door and we went in. First door we went to was a bedroom with a guy laying in it, confused as to what was going on.

The cops said "Is so-and-so here" and the guy replied she hasn't been there all day. When asked why he didn't answer the door or the knocks on the windows, he said he didn't know it was his house...






Long story short: Let the cops do the breaking in... it's their territory.

Departments and other agencies have staging policies for a reason,how did your preceptor know they were not putting all of you in great danger. Just because a call is tapped out as a possible suicide involving a 16 y/o female does not mean that's what your going to find once you enter the scene. Just the key word suicide should have been enough of a red flag and what does the patients sex and age have to do with anything. I can think of a dozen different scenarios that could have meant the end for all three of you and possibly your patient. The person that made the call to enter the unsecured scene and put you as a student in harms way is at best a moron and if they were in my charge they would be looking for work elsewhere after a good *** chewing. People new to the field need to know we stage for a reason and that is because no one can truly know what is going on with an unsecured scene, most scenes are dangerous enough,and its up to the LEO's to secure the scene every time. Do we like to stage knowing someone may need our help, no but our safety is the number one priority and that should never be compromised. Im not ripping you Linuss but that agency really needs to re-think its staging policy and make sure its enforced especially with a student on board.

 

[Shishkabob]

Not disagreeing with you at all. They had run multiple calls on her before and asked me if I was ok with it stating if I wasn't we wouldn't go.

By the time we left our staging spot though, a cruiser was right behind us.

 

[redcrossemt]

I would force entry if we knew there was a patient in distress:

1. Crying/screaming/etc. from inside.

2. Medical complaint with possibility of deterioration (unresponsiveness), with 911 call from verified address.

Otherwise, I would request law enforcement. This is typical for those medical alarm scenarios with no confirmed patient and no answer.

 

[Level1pedstech]

I think for the benefit of the people new to all this we should point out the difference between a call that requires you to stage and responding to a call and getting no answer at the door on arrival. Having had the responsibility of company officer with other members in my charge I would like to offer up the following. Some input from other members that are with first in 911 agencies just for added flavor and a different perspective would be appreciated. I think this is a very important subject and one that is not covered nearly enough in most EMT-B classes.

We stage for one reason and one reason only and that is as always safety. One agencies idea on what requires you to stage may be different from an agency on the other side of town so as always follow your agency guidelines. I will not take the time to describe what kinds of life threatening situations a first responder may encounter but think the worst then multiply it by two and you will begin to understand the importance of the order to stage,to me the best policy is one that has no exceptions, its just not worth the potential danger that could be awaiting you on the other side of the door. I understand the whole "what if you hear screaming or crying" argument but one must step back and ask why is the person screaming or crying and then follow the above advice,there are so many reasons why this is a red flag. I know it goes against the whole reason why we do this job but your safety is number one and in the real world people will die waiting for help stage scene or not. In most cases you will hopefully be staged far enough away from the scene that you wont be able to hear whats going on and that would be good if your easily disturbed by patients in distress. I can tell you that the few times over the years we have staged with my local department it was very unnerving, unless our resident deputy is in district we have a 45-60 minute ETA for either the state patrol or the sheriffs. Fortunately it has always worked out but there were times I'm glad we waited for armed backup. I would hope that most of you would only have to be in situations where you might have to stage for a few minutes at the most. In most urban settings LE will beat any engine,truck or medic unit to the seen if its perceived as a threatening scene for Fire/EMS.

In a situation where you have been dispatched to a non threatening scene you will first follow your agency guidelines. Hopefully you will have a company officer or lead medic who knows what they are doing and can use good judgement and discretion in such situations. It was true years ago that we could make entry if there was a perceived need for our help but in today's litigious society that's all gone out the window. As you can see I have not given an answer to the would I make entry question because each situation will be different and you as new providers need to learn how to make the call. This will come with time in the field and hopefully watching your peers practice good sound and safe judgement.