EMS is public safety.

[emt seeking first job]

It crosses over with health care in the ER room.

The staff of the ER room is public safety and health care. The rest of the hospital is not.

An instructor in my police academy said he never wrote ER staff but he said nothing of health care providers who do not work in an ER.

It also crosses over with transportation.

Regardless, nobody's job defines them. I am sick of peeing matches over working in transport or 911, or being a security guard, or having peace or police officer status. Nobody cares.

And it does not matter.

Brinks Security or the FBI ?

Whose life was more noble, Joseph Trambino or Robert Hanssen ?

You can see the difference in their facial expressions.

 

[usalsfyre]

Emergency MEDICAL Services.

EMS is medicine. We don't arrest people who present a public threat. We don't stop fires from burning half a city down. We tend to individual patients needs on a call, not the "public at large" needs.

The arguments I've seen around EMS falling under the "public safety" banner center essentially around "us too!".

The garbage man does a lot more for "public safety" than EMS does.

 

[MrBrown]

No its not, and until you and all the other public safety hobbyists bugger off and go ride into the sunset there will be no advancement.

Ambulance is emergent healthcare intervention.

It's absolute manure like this that keeps you blokes getting paid $10 an hour for your 100 hour course.

 

[emt seeking first job]

Emergency MEDICAL Services.

EMS is medicine. We don't arrest people who present a public threat. We don't stop fires from burning half a city down. We tend to individual patients needs on a call, not the "public at large" needs.

The arguments I've seen around EMS falling under the "public safety" banner center essentially around "us too!".

The garbage man does a lot more for "public safety" than EMS does.

Sanitation is public works.

Policing is not about arresting people, it is getting people to voluntarily comply with the law using the least amount of intervention possible.

EMS responds to mass casulaty events and triages all the patients, we dont just serve one. A doctor serves one patient (at a time) and can decline to take a new patient.

EMS has to take everyone equally without regard of ability to pay.

EMS keeps the public safe, they take care of the public at large, EMS deals with an emergency, with time sensitive incidents. There are no appointments.

 

[emt seeking first job]

No its not, and until you and all the other public safety hobbyists bugger off and go ride into the sunset there will be no advancement.

Ambulance is emergent healthcare intervention.

It's absolute manure like this that keeps you blokes getting paid $10 an hour for your 100 hour course.

A job is a job regardless of level of pay or even no pay.

A hobby is building models or creating art.

Professionalism and higher standards in conduct and training will get people paid more, but again, if it was about the money, why do people in my service forgo paid work to ride in an unpaid ambulance ?

In the US, at least, you cant be a $10 an hour EMT with a criminal conviction, however, you can have a health care position. That paramedic who got the conviction for the traffic incident now works.....in health care, in a hospital, but he can never be a paramedic again.

And the 100 hours of training + experience is enough to package, load and go to the....badda bing.....hospital for health care so the patient can get better.

People never get better in an ambulance, their diseases and not cured, their injuries are not fixed, however, they are stabilized and safely and rapidly transported to a place were they do get health care.

 

[HasTy]

And the 100 hours of training + experience is enough to package, load and go to the....badda bing.....hospital for health care so the patient can get better.

Ok kid I have tried to keep my mouth shut through all of your questions but this statement just makes me feel like I have to respond...you seriously think that your 100 hours of course work gives you suitable knowledge to hold someone life in your hands....

Now about this public safety bit...at our current level I would say that most basics are nothing more than cops with out the law enforcement training...they know about as much about medicine.

Now if you take an Intermediate who knows a little more or a Paramedic (with a degree but that is a side thread) who has had at least 2 years of education then no they are not public safety at all. However I don't believe we have gained enough respect from the medical world to be called medical professionals either so...

 

[MrBrown]

A job is a job regardless of level of pay or even no pay.

A hobby is building models or creating art.

No, a hobby is being a one hundred hour wonder be they paid or volunteer.

Professionalism and higher standards in conduct and training will get people paid more, but again, if it was about the money, why do people in my service forgo paid work to ride in an unpaid ambulance ?

Professionalism is not about money it is about standards to uphold the integrity of the body of specialised knowledge, skill and conduct required by the members of the profession.

If you are such a true professional, please, sit down and read the thousands of pages of medical textbooks that Brown has and gain an understanding of applicable microscience and context of praxis.

That is what is expected of nurses, physicians, physical therapists, and every other health professional.

Why are people at your service? You mean the one with the Paramedics who think a bradycardic patient will die if they stand up or who give supraphysiological amounts of oxygen to normoxaemic patients? Because they are idiots, and public safety hobbyists.

And the 100 hours of training + experience is enough to package, load and go to the....badda bing.....hospital for health care so the patient can get better.

People never get better in an ambulance, their diseases and not cured, their injuries are not fixed, however, they are stabilized and safely and rapidly transported to a place were they do get health care.

With due respect sir, you are a naive figurative myopic who has no understanding of what the concept of health care is.

Therefore, you are a public safety hobbyist.

 

[emt seeking first job]

Ok kid I have tried to keep my mouth shut through all of your questions but this statement just makes me feel like I have to respond...you seriously think that your 100 hours of course work gives you suitable knowledge to hold someone life in your hands....

Now about this public safety bit...at our current level I would say that most basics are nothing more than cops with out the law enforcement training...they know about as much about medicine.

Now if you take an Intermediate who knows a little more or a Paramedic (with a degree but that is a side thread) who has had at least 2 years of education then no they are not public safety at all. However I don't believe we have gained enough respect from the medical world to be called medical professionals either so...

This is an online forum. There is no reason to remain quiet.

An EMT is not a cop. The 100 hour class is enough training to package someone and get to the hospital for treatment.

And by package I mean perform interventions to maintain the patient asclose as possible to the same condition in which they were found.

Ideally we would all have paramedic training as the interventions are far broader but not everyone has the reasiurces to attain that level. In absence of a paramedic an EMT is better than leaving them in the street or friends and family driving the person in the back of their Camry.

EMS can be a gateway to a healthcare career. It can enhance someone's potential to go that route. However, EMS is not healthcare, paramedics should not be making health outreach visits or invovled in people's general health.

There is cross over in EMS/Police/Fire.

Fire Marshalls arrest people, Fire and Police do EMS calls.

But making EMS healthcare is like saying the Police is a legal profession or the judiciary.

The police should never have the power to prosecute and met out punishment, they take people to the courts where that happens.

Just like someone in EMS can go into healthcare, some cops go to law school. Having that prior experience likely enhances their chances for success.

 

[emt seeking first job]

No, a hobby is being a one hundred hour wonder be they paid or volunteer.



Professionalism is not about money it is about standards to uphold the integrity of the body of specialised knowledge, skill and conduct required by the members of the profession.

If you are such a true professional, please, sit down and read the thousands of pages of medical textbooks that Brown has and gain an understanding of applicable microscience and context of praxis.

That is what is expected of nurses, physicians, physical therapists, and every other health professional.

Why are people at your service? You mean the one with the Paramedics who think a bradycardic patient will die if they stand up or who give supraphysiological amounts of oxygen to normoxaemic patients? Because they are idiots, and public safety hobbyists.



With due respect sir, you are a naive figurative myopic who has no understanding of what the concept of health care is.

Therefore, you are a public safety hobbyist.

Mr. Brown, why hold back ?

Why not go to medical school ?

Why limit yourself to riding in the ambulance ?

Once again, 100 hours is enough to package, load and go.

This is the USA. There is no snobbery. There is a history of self reliance and as EMS is a new thing, as once was policing, back in the 1800s communities formed "possies" to get the bad guys.

Now they have professional departments. They dont go to law school. They take about 1,500 of formal training together with common sense and experience they get the job done.

 

[usalsfyre]

Sanitation is public works.

Doesn't mean they don't do a massive amount more for public health and safety in a modern city than police, fire and EMS combined.

Policing is not about arresting people, it is getting people to voluntarily comply with the law using the least amount of intervention possible.

But it still in the best interest of the public for this to happen right?

EMS responds to mass casulaty events and triages all the patients, we dont just serve one.

How routinely does this happen? At my service your looking at once or twice a year. Hospitals do FAR more triaging with bed assignments.

A doctor serves one patient (at a time) and can decline to take a new patient.

EMS has to take everyone equally without regard of ability to pay.

Are you familiar with EMTALA and exactly how far it extends?

EMS keeps the public safe, they take care of the public at large, EMS deals with an emergency, with time sensitive incidents. There are no appointments.

EMS in it's current provides limited treatment and transport to the ED. The vast (as in 99% or greater) of our work is not time sensitive. We are solely reactionary, we don't "keep the public safe" we respond after an incident that causes injury or illness. To "keep the public safe" we have to move to a far more preventative/community health model (i.e. a MEDICAL model).

Most serious EMS providers recognize this. The ones that don't are usually new, or couldn't get into another "public safety" field.

 

[HotelCo]

This is the USA. There is no snobbery.

I seriously laughed at this. Are you serious?

The excuse that it'll take time to advance EMS is a load of :censored:. We have other countries that have advanced their systems, and we can use that as a model. We needn't figure it out as we go.

 

[HasTy]

Mr. Brown, why hold back ?

Why not go to medical school ?

Why limit yourself to riding in the ambulance ?

Once again, 100 hours is enough to package, load and go.

This is the USA. There is no snobbery. There is a history of self reliance and as EMS is a new thing, as once was policing, back in the 1800s communities formed "possies" to get the bad guys.

Now they have professional departments. They dont go to law school. They take about 1,500 of formal training together with common sense and experience they get the job done.

For Starters where Brown lives to become a paramedic is the US equivalent of being a pre-med student. It takes three years for Brown to become a qualified ICP. (Correct me if I am wrong Brown)

100 Hours is what a MFR should have as required training my friend...In one of your other threads you stated you would put oxygen on a patient. Do you know why you would put oxygen on that patient if indeed it were a neccesary intervention or are you just putting it on there for the sake of air is good so 02 must be better?

As far as cops having 1500 hours of formal training....not out here in CA they don't here they have a 2 year criminal justice degree...they are well rounded individuals with knowledge of many things not just laws. I feel like this makes them better cops because of the fact that they are able to interact with the public at an intellectual level.

 

[Lone Star]

This is an online forum. There is no reason to remain quiet.

An EMT is not a cop. The 100 hour class is enough training to package someone and get to the hospital for treatment.

And by package I mean perform interventions to maintain the patient asclose as possible to the same condition in which they were found.

Ideally we would all have paramedic training as the interventions are far broader but not everyone has the reasiurces to attain that level. In absence of a paramedic an EMT is better than leaving them in the street or friends and family driving the person in the back of their Camry.

EMS can be a gateway to a healthcare career. It can enhance someone's potential to go that route. However, EMS is not healthcare, paramedics should not be making health outreach visits or invovled in people's general health.

There is cross over in EMS/Police/Fire.

Fire Marshalls arrest people, Fire and Police do EMS calls.

But making EMS healthcare is like saying the Police is a legal profession or the judiciary.

The police should never have the power to prosecute and met out punishment, they take people to the courts where that happens.

Just like someone in EMS can go into healthcare, some cops go to law school. Having that prior experience likely enhances their chances for success.

Police ARE part of the legal profession, they are the Law Enforcement division of the Legal branch of the government (remember the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of government?)

The police do not have, nor will they ever have the power to prosecute, that is for the lawyers; but the Law Enforcement Division IS a profession.

Since EMS is solely devoted to Emergency Medical Response (including emergency medical interventions), it IS and always will be a subset of the 'Health Care Profession'! If you actually take a Paramedicine degree program from a reputable college, you'll find it listed under 'Allied Health Care'...

Just because the local Fire Marshall's office has direct arrest authority, you will not find them investigating any crimes other than arson. Just because the local police department/sheriff's department or fire department has an EMS division, doesn't automatically include any private ambulance company as 'public safety'.

 

[emt seeking first job]

About standards :

In addition to enhanced medical training, IMHO, EMS should have enhanced driver training.

There should be a formal classroom and behind the wheel EVOC/CEVO program as a requisite for the EMT or Paramedic credential.

People who can not drive correctly and will not train to do it should not be in EMS. The most importent intevention EMS performs is getting the patient to the MD in the ER.

Also, basic human realtions, Verbal Judo, something like that, higher standards of conduct in the field. No arguing, bickering and more command presence.

 

[MrBrown]

It takes a minimum of four years to become a Paramedic and six to become and Intensive Care Paramedic.

 

[HotelCo]

In addition to enhanced medical training, IMHO, EMS should have enhanced driver training.

There should be a formal classroom and behind the wheel EVOC/CEVO program as a requisite for the EMT or Paramedic credential.

People who can not drive correctly and will not train to do it should not be in EMS. The most importent intevention EMS performs is getting the patient to the MD in the ER.

Also, basic human realtions, Verbal Judo, something like that, higher standards of conduct in the field. No arguing, bickering and more command presence.

EVOC/CEVO is hardly advanced. I could put a driver with two months experience in CEVO/EVOC and they'd pass with flying colors. It isn't all that hard, and doesn't teach much beyond common sense.

 

[mycrofft]

I think "public servant" is more appropriate than "safety"

Having been in a sheriff dept as a RN and not being a safety employee (less pay, darn it), I can tell you therr's a line. In fact, correctional officers in our county don't get safety pay either. "Safety" here is defined by actuarial likelihood of risk to the worker's person (it sounds better than "Dangerous Job" on job postings, no?).

As regards trashmen, actually they and their civil enginer brethern save millions of lives daily, from disaster, disease, poisoning, and physical danger. So do power company linemen, sewer workers, architects. By comparison, lifeguards, USAF crash/fire rescuemen, and most other "rescue"-category jobs have a relatively low risk due to the infrequency of risk, training, and specific safety practices and devices. (Most dangerous job in the over-all USAF? Aircraft mechanic).

Firefighters, EMT's, nurses, cops, all share one characteristic: we are priviliged with the opportunity to have an unedited look into other people's lives, and to help them.

So sez me!B)

 

[emt seeking first job]

EVOC/CEVO is hardly advanced. I could put a driver with two months experience in CEVO/EVOC and they'd pass with flying colors. It isn't all that hard, and doesn't teach much beyond common sense.

See the rigs rolling in NYC ? Many of them dont have common sense.

 

[HotelCo]

See the rigs rolling in NYC ? Many of them dont have common sense.

I never said common sense was common in this field...

 

[mycrofft]

Snobbery is a social disease.

Like athlete's foot, we all have it to some degree but don't talk about it in polite circles.