ecg question

HappyParamedicRN

Forum Crew Member
70
0
0
Did it hurt the patient? No. Could it have hurt the patient? No. I'm guessing that they did talk to their patient. How much time was lost applying the monitor? 90 seconds? Have you, as a Paramedic/RN, never done something out of a gut feeling? What made that action appropriate?

The poster stated in his previous post that it was a 10 minute transport and he didnt want to stare at the patient for 10 minutes so he put him on the monitor!

No it wont hurt the patient, but we as EMS professionals are trying to get recognition as such. Putting a 25 year old with no other problems, with a leg injury on the monitor reveals that we do not know when to use ourequipment appropriatly! Not something prfessionals would do!

Happy
 

FrostbiteMedic

Forum Lieutenant
218
2
18
The poster stated in his previous post that it was a 10 minute transport and he didnt want to stare at the patient for 10 minutes so he put him on the monitor!

No it wont hurt the patient, but we as EMS professionals are trying to get recognition as such. Putting a 25 year old with no other problems, with a leg injury on the monitor reveals that we do not know when to use ourequipment appropriatly! Not something prfessionals would do!

Happy
What if he had inadvertently caught something by doing this? Would we be heehawing over the fact he put the patient on the monitor then? I fail to see how placing this patient on the monitor, which is just another diagnostic tool, is a failure to be professional. Again, it may be useless, but it is not unprofessional....
 

18G

Paramedic
1,368
12
38
Actually it could cause harm if the patient is responsible for paying the bill for the cardiac monitor being applied.

But yeah.... 25 y/o with an isolated leg injury would not get a monitor just so I could play and look like I was doing something. Maybe I'll start an IV while I'm at it just because and go ahead and monitor EtCO2 with the nasal line filter. After all it won't hurt, right?
 
OP
OP
E

emt_irl

Forum Captain
255
1
18
thanks frostbite for sticking up for me.

to the rest of you, holy jesus i'd hate to get sick in america and have to call for an ambulance if i had to listen to attitudes like you.

we dont charge for ems/ambulances in ireland like you, so no matter what was used in the ambulance it doesnt cost the patient any more money.

Ovbiously i talked to the guy in the back about the day, the suprisingly good weather for the time of year etc etc. i just simply put him on a 3 lead as i do with most other, if you dont use it, you loose it! (the skill of applying electrodes to the pateints body and reading a lead)

i havent come accross many forums on the internet with a cut throat attitude like you guys!
 
OP
OP
E

emt_irl

Forum Captain
255
1
18
so anyways, guess none of you were listening in class when the instructor said positive electrical impulses toward the electrode create a upward wave on the screen, and the oppasite causes a downward wave. i was simply asking what may cause such a wave in a non sympthomatic patient??

what if i lie, go back and edit my first post, say he was complaining of shortness of breath, was weak/faint. cold and clammy to the touch. control said als was 20 mins out and the ed was 10 mins away and to transport.
 

MediMike

Forum Lieutenant
181
2
0
You were given several replies regarding possible causes of that, axis deviation etc. Majority of users on here are from America, and yeah there are some places I'd hate to get hurt in as well, but all that aside, another major issue we face is people performing unnecessary procedures and the patient then gets charged for them. We have different healthcare systems clearly.

Frostbite your logic is the same as the idea of throwing the pads on everyone "just in case" they go into cardiac arrest. Broke your toe? Lets go ahead and do a glucose check. Dyspnea? Better get a splint on that leg.
 
OP
OP
E

emt_irl

Forum Captain
255
1
18
You were given several replies regarding possible causes of that, axis deviation etc. Majority of users on here are from America, and yeah there are some places I'd hate to get hurt in as well, but all that aside, another major issue we face is people performing unnecessary procedures and the patient then gets charged for them. We have different healthcare systems clearly.

Frostbite your logic is the same as the idea of throwing the pads on everyone "just in case" they go into cardiac arrest. Broke your toe? Lets go ahead and do a glucose check. Dyspnea? Better get a splint on that leg.

i was being a tad scarcastic in the last paragraph.

with the broken toe though, what if they had a low bgl causing them to become disorientated and break said toe?

my opnion is, all our tools of the trade can be used to our advantage to build up a picture of whats going and what has gone on with our patients. then with a differential diagnosis we can choose which path to take.

hell, the laceration was controlled fairly easily, before we loaded him into the back. but partially to keep my skills current and maybe he felt like he got better service and felt confident and content that i was on top i things i gave him the full work out.

anyways you'd swear i put two large bore iv caths in for the craic of it by the forums over reaction. poor guys must work for a service where you better not use and of the good drugs or equipment for fear it comes out of your pay check
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MediMike

Forum Lieutenant
181
2
0
Then they would have an altered mental status as well and you'd be more interested in treating that rather than the toe. I'd hope. :rolleyes:

Regardless that and any discussions involving the overtreatment of patients belongs in another thread. Don't get discouraged on here, public posting on the forum will get ya a lot more than you asked for sometimes, but take some of it to heart. Theres some very good information on here and some great discussions have evolved from simple threads like yours.
 

Scout

Para-Noid
576
2
18
LAds,

Some of ye need to calm down. EMT_IRL was asking a question. ECG is a fairly new skill here for the EMT. Why not practice it?

Did it do any harm? -No
Did it cost anything extra?-No, Well a €1 worth of dots, a cost not passed to the pt.
Did the patient mind?-No

Could it have yielded a benefit? -Yes


I have often found, or lead to the finding of something because I checked something not totally necessary. The other main point some posters should be aware is that this was/is an international EMS forum. You can have many different ways of doing things. If you want to try and act all high an mighty fix your own house first.

Most EMT's in Ireland are support roles (Vol/Hobby), they do standbys and occasionally a Pt transport. But more often than not we have a Paramedic around. There is a paramedic on all frontline ambulances and we have a national governing body for EMS. Paramedic is a college course too, We are not perfect but don't try and talk down the system.


*not saying a I'd ECG an isolated leg wound though? [/RANT]
 

the_negro_puppy

Forum Asst. Chief
897
0
0
This is a bit ridiculous, arm-chair mob criticising for performing a simple non-invasive procedure with zero chance of harm and can only be of benefit in the assessment and treatment of the patient.


Monitoring the patient is not the same as "starting an IV, 'Just in case" etco2 "just in case"
 

zmedic

Forum Captain
480
0
16
The risk is that you spend time worrying about the ECG rather than doing your paperwork, monitoring the patient, radio coms, vital signs etc all things that are more important in this case. Also what do you do once you find something? You now have to tell the doc, and they have to work it up. That's not good for the same reason that we don't give everyone MRIs or ultrasounds for screening, because then you stress out the patient who isn't having symptoms when you find a little ditzle.

Finally, we aren't very well trained in reading ecgs of people under 40. I did a rotation in pediatric cardiology and pedi ECGs are a whole different game. There are lots of things that look weird on a 20 year olds ECG that aren't a problem.
 

FrostbiteMedic

Forum Lieutenant
218
2
18
This is a bit ridiculous, arm-chair mob criticising for performing a simple non-invasive procedure with zero chance of harm and can only be of benefit in the assessment and treatment of the patient.


Monitoring the patient is not the same as "starting an IV, 'Just in case" etco2 "just in case"
My point exactly.
 
Top