Couple Ticketed for Dash to the Hospital for Baby

[lightsandsirens5]

Ok, first, watch this.

Then, discuss.

I think I agree with the Troopers. I know there is not much information, but I am guessing (among many other things) the guy #1 has no experience on proper high speed driving. #2 is probably emotionally charged and thus his perception and reaction is altered. #3 is not driving a vehicle designed to do 102 on a road meant to be driven at 55. And #4 is driving on a road obviously designed for safe travel at 55 MPH.

So we have a highly emotional, inexperienced (relatively speaking) man, driving twice the safe speed limit in a car not designed for it. If you ask me that is a disaster waiting to happen.

Not to mention that every highway speed wreck I have been to involving a pregnant woman resulted in the loss of the baby. I know that is not a 100% certain thing, but do you know what that vehicle (and its occupants) would look like if some poor unsuspecting driver changed lanes in front of them and this guy swerved to miss them, lost control and rolled that thing or plowed into a tree? Unless they are wearing 5 point restraints in a tank, their chances are not very good.

Not only was he endangering himself, his wife and his unborn child, he was endangering everyone else on the road. I don't think childbirth is considered an emergency from the outset unless it was a complicated pregnancy, am I right?

What do y'all think?

 

[LuvGlock]

I've taken an emergency vehicle defensive driving course, both with buses and police cars, and *I* wouldn't drive 102 in a 55.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

Oops......the other thread on this didn't come up on the search. (This one: http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=21411 )

Mods, can you merge the two? Mine has a video. His has a written story. Thanks.

Sorry about that!

 

[AnthonyM83]

The story won't load for me, but I guess the question is whether a reasonable non medically trained person would think imminent childbirth was a life threatening emergency or not. On most roads (though I can think of exceptions), you can assume you'll have an accident before you make it to the hospital going 105 in a 55. What are EMS ETA's like there?


I have been flagged down by someone going 100+ in a 35MPH. I was ready to blow my top at the wrecklessness, when I realized passenger had been critically stabbed and altered. Died 2 minutes later...I probably would have rushed to the ER, too.

 

[JPINFV]

Ok, first, watch this.

Then, discuss.

I think I agree with the Troopers. I know there is not much information, but I am guessing (among many other things) the guy #1 has no experience on proper high speed driving. #2 is probably emotionally charged and thus his perception and reaction is altered. #3 is not driving a vehicle designed to do 102 on a road meant to be driven at 55. And #4 is driving on a road obviously designed for safe travel at 55 MPH.

...

What do y'all think?

Without more information, the only thing I can agree with is number 2.

1. Is 100 MPH really "ZOMG need special training" level of fast?

2. Every car I've ever seen has had a speedometer go well past 100. Apparently the cars can handle it and the normal drivers can handle it or, following the Four Loko bans, cars should have a governator at something like 80 required by law. After all, there has to be a magical number someplace.

3. Without seeing the road and the traffic conditions, using the speed limit is meaningless. Southern California is an entire region of mostly 65 MPH speed limits and the speed of traffic somewhere between 80-90. There is one stretch (I-5 going through Camp Pendleton) where speeds regularly go north of 100 outside of peek traffic times.

Using speed limits as the sole determinant of what a road or vehicle can handle is flawed at it's premise since speed limits are set based on traffic surveys, not whether a road is "designed" to handle 55 MPH or 100 MPH.

 

[Tanker299]

1. Is 100 MPH really "ZOMG need special training" level of fast?

No, not really (I drive on the NJ Turnpike and the Garden State Parkway) ...

But consider this for a minute, this guy drove over 100mph because his mental state dictated that he needed to drive that fast to get to the hospital.
The same mental state that allowed him to drive over 100mph is the same mental state that was dealing with a highly charged situation as he saw it.
I can imagine him in the car (I have kids too) constantly turning to his wife who, judging by her demeanor on the video, does not strike me as the epitome of calmness; trying both to calm her and maintain control of a vehicle may have exceeded his limits.

And whether 55mph is an arbitrary speed limit based on surveys or one designed based on road conditions (unlikely I know) the fact is that 100mph is pretty fast for the normal folk, especially one dealing with an imminent birth.

Would I have obeyed the speed limit in a similar situation, don't think so, but would I have tried to rationalize a 100mph speeding ticket after the fact? Nah. I'd be thankful for getting there safe after being escorted by the cop and bitten the dust on the ticket.
Chances are the judge would probably dismiss with a stern warning (no idea how lenient NH traffic judges are)

My 2p

 

[JPINFV]

But consider this for a minute, this guy drove over 100mph because his mental state dictated that he needed to drive that fast to get to the hospital.

Hence why the only point that Lightsandsirens made that I could agree with was point 2, it being an emotionally charged situation.

And whether 55mph is an arbitrary speed limit based on surveys or one designed based on road conditions (unlikely I know) the fact is that 100mph is pretty fast for the normal folk, especially one dealing with an imminent birth.

A speed limit based on a properly conducted speed survey isn't nearly as arbitrary as one based on the road design.

 

[AnthonyM83]

This might turn into one of those "we don't have enough information".

We can all probably agree it was way too fast, but whether it was outright gross negligence to his family in the sense he was bound to kill them at those speeds requires specific information.

JP already listed a road where people routinely go 100. I can show you a non-freeway business zone 35 MPH zone where people (including cops) routinely hit 80 MPH at night, because it's a straight away, wide road, multi-laned, center divide, and has concrete barriers on the side (no chance for pedestrians, bikes, or other cars to enter/exit), but only for half a mile. So, that's where people speed, then slow down as it gets more residential.

All wrong to speed, but point is there's varying levels of danger. You can't go based on a number by itself. Did he hit 105 during one of these straight-aways for only a few seconds? History of precipitous delivery? Was he driving erratically otherwise? What was speed limited based on? Etc Etc.

What was the charge? Infraction/Misdemeanor? Speeding? Speeding over a certain amount? (and higher fine)? Reckless?

I'd probably say just go to court, get fine lowered, see if judge will waive it, if not, it's just the cost of the childbirth. Did they call him an ambulance to finish the transport? (I can't see the video)

 

[Aerin-Sol]

The story won't load for me, but I guess the question is whether a reasonable non medically trained person would think imminent childbirth was a life threatening emergency or not. On most roads (though I can think of exceptions), you can assume you'll have an accident before you make it to the hospital going 105 in a 55. What are EMS ETA's like there?

Unfortunately, in the US, it is quite common for otherwise reasonable people to think that imminent childbirth is a life-threatening emergency, because that is how it is portrayed in most our media and by the "medical establishment." I won't go too far into a politic rant, but there have been recent attempts to freaking *criminalize* homebirth.

As far as the speeding father, I doubt the ticket or public condemnation will have any effect on hims. I've berated family members for following me while I'm going L&S, even explaining the risks to life/limb of everyone on the road, and they brush it off by saying "meh, the worst that would happen is that I would get a ticket" because accidents happen to other people... just like traffic laws are only for people who aren't having an emergency.

 

[JPINFV]

Unfortunately, in the US, it is quite common for otherwise reasonable people to think that imminent childbirth is a life-threatening emergency, because that is how it is portrayed in most our media and by the "medical establishment." I won't go too far into a politic rant, but there have been recent attempts to freaking *criminalize* homebirth.

Why wouldn't homebirth be dangerous? It's not like home birth hasn't been the standard for thousands of years or anything.

/snark.

 

[jjesusfreak01]

Why wouldn't homebirth be dangerous? It's not like home birth hasn't been the standard for thousands of years or anything.

/snark.

Homebirth is no more dangerous than birth anywhere else, except in the cases where complications arise and higher level medical care is needed. Childbirth is a historically dangerous endeavor for the mother and baby, even if it normally goes fine.

It doesn't sound like it was ever the intention of this couple to rush to the hospital. The wife went into labor, they went on their way to the hospital, and then her water broke. He started speeding when he realized that birth was imminent (which it was, considering that the baby was born 6 minutes after they arrived at the hospital).

You are kinda putting him in an impossible situation here. Yeah, I would trust a paramedic (or a midwife) to do a home delivery and be able to handle most complications, as I would trust doctors at the hospital, but he's on the road, with no medical help. If there is any complication during the delivery in the car, the baby probably dies. The seat of a car is possibly the worst possible place to have a baby, aside from a zipline over an open volcanic crater.

 

[JPINFV]

I was being sarcastic, hence the "/snark" tag.

 

[Sassafras]

I'm going to have to go on record saying that living an hour away from the hospital and already losing one baby due to homebirthing and refusal to seek medical care for nuchal cord issues, you probably are in a contraindicated situation to home birth. ANd waiting until you've been pushing 2 hours to no avail to call for help, is equally as stupid. But hey, I'm just the EMT and know nuthin' about birthin' no babies.

(Says the gal who tried to have a home birth once to no avail, but at least had the smarts to have clearly defined back up plans).