Burn out and Turnover

Niccigsu

Niccigsu

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Ok, so I have read a lot of posts on this forum and for the most part they have been very informative. I have noticed a trend with a lot of posters though. At first, I read very encouraging words and positive info from people when they first start posting, but as you look at other posts over time these same people have become negative and jaded. (I don't knock anyone for this because I became the same way at my previous job, hence the reason why I don't work there anymore) I know this happens in every profession and I know people can get burned out. I'm just curious as to why people stay in a profession that they have grown to dislike and dread going to work. I don't think you are a benefit to anyone anymore when you are burned out. I would consider being an EMT/Paramedic a highly stressful job and could see burn out happen quickly. My questions to everyone are, what are the different ways you personally deal with stress and burn out so it doesn't have an impact on your ability to care for a pt. or impact your personal life? Also, do you consider the EMS profession to have a high turnover rate?
 
Time off and separation of work and life. Too many people get consumed in EMS and wear themselves out. It's hard to remember why you got into this business when you never get your head above the weeds.
 
I don't think its to do with the job, so much as the forum.

When you first arrive, you see a thread about advice for a newbie starting school soon, questions about ADL in cali, the best stethoscope or the best boots and you think, yeha, a thread on those topics, not the most pressing of matters but what ever...oh look a thread on fluid resuscitation...cool.

Then as time goes on a couple of things seem to happen:

1. You get sick of the fact that a new thread on each of those topics seems to appear every week, despite the presence of a search function and a reasonably well structured set of rules guiding English speakers in the appropriate use of the written form of the language they supposedly speak.

2. That these threads seem to be considered by some to be more important, and certainly of more interest, that the discussion of clinical matters.

3. You develop a particular hatred of certain attitudes and personality types. You were tolerant at first and typed out considered posts helping that person learn. But after a while, when the 900th person turns up in a thread with a post like "Hai gais, OMG, you can't do that, I would have collared (its trauma gais jeezzz) and boarded, bagged the pt because they're hyperventilating then put them on 15lmp via NRBM and driven lights and sirens (didn't you learn about the golden hour) to a trauma centre for that broken finger. What pain relief? Pain relief isn't required, just spinal immobilisation and 15lpm O2 NRBM". - it gets a little frustrating. Because of the endless tide of people with their annoying posts and its frightening that there is a world full of providers out there who think like that.
 
It's not unusual for EMS workers to have a "love/hate" relationship with their jobs. I think most of us continue to like some aspects of our work, even as we grow to dislike other parts. When I'm feeling more dislike than like, I try to remember that the ratio can and will change at any time.

Burnout happens, but I don't think irremediable burnout occurs as often as I've heard discussed. Based on my own experience, I'd say it's possible to recognize signs of impending burnout, and take steps -- e.g. time off, lifestyle changes, new jobs -- to stop and perhaps reverse that process.

I don't have any broad statistics about turnover, but I can tell you that I've worked in other industries where turnover was considered high, too. I think most people chase opportunities that they think are better than what they have.
 
Melclin said:
3. You develop a particular hatred of certain attitudes and personality types. You were tolerant at first and typed out considered posts helping that person learn. But after a while, when the 900th person turns up in a thread with a post like "Hai gais, OMG, you can't do that, I would have collared (its trauma gais jeezzz) and boarded, bagged the pt because they're hyperventilating then put them on 15lmp via NRBM and driven lights and sirens (didn't you learn about the golden hour) to a trauma centre for that broken finger. What pain relief? Pain relief isn't required, just spinal immobilisation and 15lpm O2 NRBM". - it gets a little frustrating. Because of the endless tide of people with their annoying posts and its frightening that there is a world full of providers out there who think like that.
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This is freaking comedy gold here^^^^^

Thank you. I needed that laugh this morning. And I agree.
 
1. You get sick of the fact that a new thread on each of those topics seems to appear every week, despite the presence of a search function and a reasonably well structured set of rules guiding English speakers in the appropriate use of the written form of the language they supposedly speak.
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You know, I'm pretty sure every possible topic has been covered in this forum at some point, since it's been around for years. Yeah, the scope threads and boot threads get a little tiresome, but it gives you something to read and respond too... And if it absolutely bothers you soooo much, you have the option of skipping that thread and not even reading it!

If we only talk about new topics, eventually you'll run out of stuff to talk about and the forum will die.
 
And as I was saying in a different thread that I highly believe people burn out and turn over so quickly because they enter school with high expectations and a false sense of what it means to be an EMT/Paramedic.
 
Sasha said:
You know, I'm pretty sure every possible topic has been covered in this forum at some point, since it's been around for years. Yeah, the scope threads and boot threads get a little tiresome, but it gives you something to read and respond too... And if it absolutely bothers you soooo much, you have the option of skipping that thread and not even reading it!

If we only talk about new topics, eventually you'll run out of stuff to talk about and the forum will die.
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Absolutely. Its not that threads reappear that bothers me, but that they do so with such regularity with identical questions that are, in all likelihood, something that should be solved with a quick phone call or google. In fact I'm not even saying that it does bother me specifically, just that its an explanation behind some of the frosty "use the search function" type replies.

Its important to readdress older issues, especially as new information comes to light, but I suspect there hasn't been a great deal of new literature published lately about which trauma sheer holster looks the best with blue pants.

Ignore it? I agree, and you won't too many nasty response in the ADL or stethoscope threads from me, but I sympathise with the frustration that others have expressed.
 
Sasha said:
And as I was saying in a different thread that I highly believe people burn out and turn over so quickly because they enter school with high expectations and a false sense of what it means to be an EMT/Paramedic.
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I actually blame the money aspect. If we were paid on par with RNs, I'm quite confident that our turnover rate would be equal to theirs.




Or, you know, if people used EMS as it was intended and not as a taxi....
 
But you're not an RN. You want to be paid like one, go to nursing school.

People use EMS as a taxi because they are not educated enough about the system, what constitutes an emergency, and the fact arrival by ambulance does not get them seen quicker. But then again, those calls keep you employed.

I don't see EMS as EMERGENCY medicine either except for a very small percentage. Some people need an ambulance, and not a Paramedic.
 
Sasha said:
But you're not an RN. You want to be paid like one, go to nursing school.
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Doesn't change a single thing I've said. They're our counterparts, we're equal in the grand scheme, pay should be commensurate as such.
 
You're not equal, especially in education. There is rare exception for those who seek a degree but that is where the line is drawn.
 
Sasha said:
You're not equal, especially in education. There is rare exception for those who seek a degree but that is where the line is drawn.
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And we'll go back to exactly what I said: If we were paid better, turnover would be lower. True or false?




Don't turn this in to another nurse vs medic thread... those never end well.
 
Why should we be paid better? Our educational requirements are laughable, the market is over saturated and there are people willing to do it for free.

What leg do you have to stand on to demand better pay?
 
Nusing turnover costs billions annually.

EMT's: about $12.75.
Just kidding. OP, see the first answer and follow it religiously.

Melclin, bite down on this when the electrodes start to heat up and don't tense up, it'll be better soon.

Sasha, how many "new"* subjects have I raised and no one dropped by? :cool:


*not to mention "lame"?
 
Sasha said:
People use EMS as a taxi because they are not educated enough about the system, what constitutes an emergency, and the fact arrival by ambulance does not get them seen quicker. .
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We had a PhD student look into this a while back. Turns out people don't call because they think they're having a medical emergency, so it really doesn't matter how well they're educated. They call because they lose the ability to cope with a situation that is vaguely medical in nature. If their coping capacity is low this can be pretty much anything.

An elderly relative who has a cold when you're already stressed at work and your wife wants a divorce.

Chronic back pain at 0430, just can't cope any longer.

Bloke with minor gastro, stressed at work trying to secure a deal that will see his struggling business survive.

Bloke with minor gastro, picked his father up two week previous after a stroke, turns out father isn't doing well, bloke just feels overwhelmed and the gastro is the straw that breaks the camels back.

Overwhelmed mother on welfare, kid falls and bumps head, 3 other children jumping around screaming and generally misbehaving and snap, can't deal with it..call an ambulance.

A minor lac on the finger, woman complaining of "extreme pain", absurdly distressed. Turns out she was diagnosed with metastatic cancer a week ago. If you ask them, and this PhD student did, these people don't say, "Oh yes I believe a cut finger/chronic back pain/gastro/cold is a medical emergency". Yet they often agree that an ambulance is for a medical emergency.

Its an issue of coping capacity, not medical education. But I will concede that occasionally we do come across people who think they'll get in quicker in an ambulance and its often a factor when we're suggesting people go to hospital in their own car, but people who actually call solely for that reason are relative rare. YMMD.
 
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Sasha said:
And if it absolutely bothers you soooo much, you have the option of skipping that thread and not even reading it!

If we only talk about new topics, eventually you'll run out of stuff to talk about and the forum will die.
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I dont have that option

I hate having bold unread threads on my home screen, I really have to open every one.
 
Melclin said:
We had a PhD student look into this a while back. Turns out people don't call because they think they're having a medical emergency, so it really doesn't matter how well they're educated. They call because they lose the ability to cope with a situation that is vaguely medical in nature. If their coping capacity is low this can be pretty much anything.
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I believe it. The thing that blows about these calls is that I am powerless to do anything about them other than a ride to the hospital. I can't even advise them to call their pcp in the morning. That by itself is frustrating, the feeling of being unable to actually help my patients.
Of course we have a majority of providers who insist that we are here to do CPR on little johnnie and fill him full of questionably helpful medications. Or to drive lights and sirens to the hospital while you fill a trauma patient with fluid until they bleed pink, then hi-five and slap each other's asses for a job well done. It embarrassing, it's ignorant, and it's inexcusable piss-poor patient care. Helping grandma off the floor after her tumble and arranging for her to get a life alert button? That's nurses work, we paramedics are too good/well educated/awesome/underpaid/supposed to fight fires/have dinner at the station/etc. to actually do some preventative medicine while on scene with a non-transport.

That all said, I think burnout comes in different flavors for all of us. Some can't deal with the calls and the stress anymore. Some can't deal with management's BS. For some it's all of our "colleges" who have egos the size of the ambulance and are insufferable to be around. And still others it's watching this profession stumble over itself while it debates minutiae that have long been resolved in other professions, like are we public saftey or healthcare? Do we belong on fire trucks or ambulances? Are we all EMTs or are we all Paramedics? How can we get paid more while allowing 18 year-olds to become paramedics with no science background? Can we still intubate people and only read at the 8th grade level?

Burnout is everywhere, in every profession, for different reasons. The only real advise I can give is: Never let your misery with your work get in the way of patient care. They are people too, with sometimes equally or even more $hitty work/life situations. Keep that in perspective.
 
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